Musician, March 1991: Difference between revisions
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As everyone knows, [[Grateful Dead]] fans come in all sorts and | As everyone knows, [[Grateful Dead]] fans come in all sorts and | ||
sizes — including one Elvis Costello. And so, when Musician got | sizes — including one Elvis Costello. And so, when ''Musician'' got | ||
the idea of putting him together with the Dead's eminence grise, | the idea of putting him together with the Dead's eminence grise, | ||
[[Jerry Garcia]], Elvis took a detour on his way to Los Angeles, | [[Jerry Garcia]], Elvis took a detour on his way to Los Angeles, | ||
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shaggy beards, for starters, not to mention a way with a melody. | shaggy beards, for starters, not to mention a way with a melody. | ||
Perhaps that's why both musicians will be featured on upcoming | Perhaps that's why both musicians will be featured on upcoming albums as far flung as [[Rob Wasserman]]'s ''[[Rob Wasserman: Trios|Trios]]'' and [[Hal Willner]]'s [[Weird Nightmare: Meditations On Mingus|tribute]] to [[Charles Mingus]]. Or why Costello's rendition of Garcia/[[Robert Hunter|Hunter]]'s "[[Ship of Fools]]" is on ''[[Deadicated]]'', a benefit LP for the Amazon rain forest comprising covers of Grateful Dead songs. Nor does it take too much of a stretch to imagine Garcia someday spinning out fine choruses behind "[[Brilliant Mistake]]" or some other Costello tune. It wouldn't even be the first time they've played together. | ||
albums as far flung as [[Rob Wasserman]]'s ''[[Rob Wasserman: Trios|Trios]]'' and [[Hal Willner]]'s | |||
[[Weird Nightmare: Meditations On Mingus|tribute]] to [[Charles Mingus]]. Or why Costello's rendition of | |||
Garcia/[[Robert Hunter|Hunter]]'s "[[Ship of Fools]]" is on ''[[Deadicated]]'', a benefit LP | |||
for the Amazon rain forest comprising covers of Grateful Dead | |||
songs. Nor does it take too much of a stretch to imagine Garcia | |||
someday spinning out fine choruses behind "[[Brilliant Mistake]]" or | |||
some other Costello tune. It wouldn't even be the first time | |||
they've played together. | |||
But we'll let them tell the stories. Grab a cup of coffee and | But we'll let them tell the stories. Grab a cup of coffee and pull up a chair. | ||
pull up a chair. | |||
'''Elvis:''' Certainly a candidate for the world's greatest record | '''Elvis:''' Certainly a candidate for the world's greatest record | ||
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don't miss a band. I always feel like I'm missing a band. | don't miss a band. I always feel like I'm missing a band. | ||
'''Elvis:''' I did start in folk clubs, but I never learned any | '''Elvis:''' I did start in folk clubs, but I never learned any technique. When I found it necessary to go out on the road solo, in 1984, I booked these shows, in North Carolina or somewhere, and I kind of rehearsed a set in the solitude of my own room. Then I was horrified to find there was 6000 people there [''Jerry laughs'']. And I'd never played solo since before I was a professional. It was sheer fear. | ||
technique. When I found it necessary to go out on the road solo, | |||
in 1984, I booked these shows, in North Carolina or somewhere, | |||
and I kind of rehearsed a set in the solitude of my own room. | |||
Then I was horrified to find there was 6000 people there [''Jerry laughs'']. And I'd never played solo since before I was a | |||
professional. It was sheer fear. | |||
When I first went on the road as a professional, it was sketching | When I first went on the road as a professional, it was sketching | ||
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''Musician: Do you think your style as a player comes out of that bluegrass background? | ''Musician: Do you think your style as a player comes out of that bluegrass background? | ||
'''Jerry:''' Oh yeah, it comes from my fondness for a clearly spoken | '''Jerry:''' Oh yeah, it comes from my fondness for a clearly spoken line, a clearly enunciated note. | ||
line, a clearly enunciated note. | |||
''Musician: I think it will be a surprise to some readers to see you two together, because of the stereotype that comes with the territory, of who you are. To what extent does that stereotype have truth, and to what extent are you perhaps trapped by it? | ''Musician: I think it will be a surprise to some readers to see you two together, because of the stereotype that comes with the territory, of who you are. To what extent does that stereotype have truth, and to what extent are you perhaps trapped by it? | ||
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Death is always death. | Death is always death. | ||
'''Elvis:''' It should be pointed out that we're both sitting here | '''Elvis:''' It should be pointed out that we're both sitting here dressed in grim reaper outfits. | ||
dressed in grim reaper outfits. | |||
'''Jerry:''' Discussing the niceties of soul-collecting. | '''Jerry:''' Discussing the niceties of soul-collecting. | ||
''Musician: It's ironic that people now are trying to recapture the so-called "danger" of rock 'n' roll | ''Musician: It's ironic that people now are trying to recapture the so-called "danger" of rock 'n' roll and— | ||
'''Jerry:''' We're still trying to transcend it. We're living in the | '''Jerry:''' We're still trying to transcend it. We're living in the | ||
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very much. | very much. | ||
'''Elvis:''' And also, presumably, music that had always been in the | '''Elvis:''' And also, presumably, music that had always been in the background. You played banjo... | ||
background. You played banjo... | |||
'''Jerry:''' Yeah. We're kind of on the far fringe of it, but we're | '''Jerry:''' Yeah. We're kind of on the far fringe of it, but we're part of that California Bakersfield school of country and western rock 'n' roll — [[Buck Owens]], [[Merle Haggard]]. We used to go see those bands and think, "Gee, those guys are great." [Buck Owens' guitarist] Don Rich was one of my favorites, I learned a lot of stuff from him. | ||
part of that California Bakersfield school of country and western | |||
rock 'n' roll — [[Buck Owens]], [[Merle Haggard]]. We used to go see those | |||
bands and think, "Gee, those guys are great." [Buck Owens' | |||
guitarist] Don Rich was one of my favorites, I learned a lot of | |||
stuff from him. | |||
So we took kind of the Buck Owens approach on ''Workingman's | So we took kind of the Buck Owens approach on ''Workingman's Dead''. Some of the songs in there are direct tributes to that style of music, although they're not real obvious. | ||
Dead''. | |||
style of music, although they're not real obvious. | |||
'''Elvis:''' You can see the connection between Haggard's "[[Workin' Man Blues|Working Man Blues]]" and "Cumberland Blues." | '''Elvis:''' You can see the connection between Haggard's "[[Workin' Man Blues|Working Man Blues]]" and "Cumberland Blues." | ||
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help but invest them with some life. | help but invest them with some life. | ||
Country and western songs are so directly narrative, if you don't | Country and western songs are so directly narrative, if you don't get the point the first time you play it, it's a failure. | ||
get the point the first time you play it, it's a failure. | |||
'''Elvis:''' It's funny, it's like a light went on when you said Don | '''Elvis:''' It's funny, it's like a light went on when you said Don | ||
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'''Jerry:''' Amos! Oh yeah, he's an old buddy of mine. | '''Jerry:''' Amos! Oh yeah, he's an old buddy of mine. | ||
'''Elvis:''' Was that style of improvisation just a natural development | '''Elvis:''' Was that style of improvisation just a natural development for you? | ||
for you? | |||
'''Jerry:''' Well, I get my improvisational approach from Scotty | '''Jerry:''' Well, I get my improvisational approach from Scotty | ||
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which is unheard of in bluegrass. | which is unheard of in bluegrass. | ||
I'd never heard anything like it. I asked him later, "How do you | I'd never heard anything like it. I asked him later, "How do you do that?" And he said, "Man, I just play 'lonesome.'" | ||
do that?" And he said, "Man, I just play 'lonesome.'" | |||
He probably died of drinking hair tonic; he was one of those | He probably died of drinking hair tonic; he was one of those | ||
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north of North Carolina... | north of North Carolina... | ||
'''Elvis:''' You would have that music. From about '70 to about '76, | '''Elvis:''' You would have that music. From about '70 to about '76, the bar scene, which preceded punk in London, was very influenced by bands like Little Feat, who worked using New Orleans riffs and then grafting the blues thing with a country sort of melody. Some of the Dead's music from that period has that same flavor. | ||
the bar scene, which preceded punk in London, was very influenced | |||
by bands like Little Feat, who worked using New Orleans riffs and | |||
then grafting the blues thing with a country sort of melody. | |||
Some of the Dead's music from that period has that same flavor. | |||
'''Jerry:''' At that time, in the early '70s, we were listening to the | '''Jerry:''' At that time, in the early '70s, we were listening to the old Neville Brothers—[[the Meters]]—and also the early reggae stuff that was coming in. So that was in our ears. The interesting thing about that reggae stuff is that the Jamaican guys were trying to get that sleight-of-hand with modular instruments: from the Larry Graham bass thing and the little things Sly used to do on those records. So they copped that idea that way. | ||
old Neville Brothers—[[the Meters]]—and also the early reggae stuff | |||
that was coming in. So that was in our ears. The interesting | |||
thing about that reggae stuff is that the Jamaican guys were | |||
trying to get that sleight-of-hand with modular instruments: from | |||
the Larry Graham bass thing and the little things Sly used to do | |||
on those records. So they copped that idea that way. | |||
'''Elvis:''' Plus the way the Meters played on [[Lee Dorsey]] records, that | '''Elvis:''' Plus the way the Meters played on [[Lee Dorsey]] records, that was a similar sort of blueprint. | ||
was a similar sort of blueprint. | |||
'''Jerry:''' It's all been stolen back and forth at several different | '''Jerry:''' It's all been stolen back and forth at several different levels. | ||
levels. | |||
'''Elvis:''' That was the time at which my first record came, and I put | '''Elvis:''' That was the time at which my first record came, and I put some voltage into it — not in terms of volume, but in terms of speed — which was a quite self-conscious attempt because I realized that the music that I liked was about to be stranded by the tide going out. The very band I had to play on it was a Marin County band, [[Clover]]. And they came to town at exactly the wrong moment for their careers; they were persuaded by my manager to come here and arrived just in time for their playing in tune to go right out of style. But it was possible, because of their ability to play anything, for me to say, "Okay, this is kind of like the feel of You Ain't Livin' Until You're Lovin',' but playing it like a bar band, pedal-steel first solo." I didn't even say that, this was decided spontaneously. The self-conscious element was not to pretend that I never liked that music — 'cause I couldn't do that, I liked it too much — but to make it not too polite. | ||
some voltage into it — not in terms of volume, but in terms of | |||
speed — which was a quite self-conscious attempt because I realized | |||
that the music that I liked was about to be stranded by the tide | |||
going out. The very band I had to play on it was a Marin County | |||
band, [[Clover]]. And they came to town at exactly the wrong moment | |||
for their careers; they were persuaded by my manager to come here | |||
and arrived just in time for their playing in tune to go right | |||
out of style. But it was possible, because of their ability to | |||
play anything, for me to say, "Okay, this is kind of like the | |||
feel of You Ain't Livin' Until You're Lovin',' but playing it | |||
like a bar band, pedal-steel first solo." I didn't even say | |||
that, this was decided spontaneously. The self-conscious element | |||
was not to pretend that I never liked that music — 'cause I | |||
couldn't do that, I liked it too much — but to make it not too | |||
polite. | |||
''Musician: When you spoke earlier of aspiring to the respectability of jazz, did that in any way influence the group to move in an improvisational direction? | ''Musician: When you spoke earlier of aspiring to the respectability of jazz, did that in any way influence the group to move in an improvisational direction? | ||
'''Jerry:''' Not really. By then I'd forgotten I'd even had thoughts | '''Jerry:''' Not really. By then I'd forgotten I'd even had thoughts like that. I'm thinking about how I felt when I was 15. It was a very youthful point of view. By then I'd "gotten over" rock 'n' roll and was involved in bluegrass music, and seriously pushing in that direction — when all of a sudden the Beatles came along and all that and I went — "Oh, okay, sure." | ||
like that. I'm thinking about how I felt when I was 15. It was | |||
a very youthful point of view. By then I'd "gotten over" rock | |||
'n' roll and was involved in bluegrass music, and seriously | |||
pushing in that direction — when all of a sudden the Beatles came | |||
along and all that and I went — "Oh, okay, sure." | |||
'''Elvis:''' When you're 15...I remember there was six months where I | '''Elvis:''' When you're 15...I remember there was six months where I wouldn't buy a record that had an electric guitar on it. I thought I'd left that behind when I was 10. [''laughs''] There'd even be times where you'd sell records which you'd buy again a year later. 'Cause you'd completely change your mind. | ||
wouldn't buy a record that had an electric guitar on it. I | |||
thought I'd left that behind when I was 10. [''laughs''] There'd | |||
even be times where you'd sell records which you'd buy again a | |||
year later. 'Cause you'd completely change your mind. | |||
It's possibly not going to happen like that anymore, simply | It's possibly not going to happen like that anymore, simply because there isn't the variation. Everyone hears the same music all the time, the sources are so universal. Which is too bad really — there's no mysterious message. | ||
because there isn't the variation. Everyone hears the same music | |||
all the time, the sources are so universal. Which is too bad | |||
really — there's no mysterious message. | |||
'''Jerry:''' In the early days of rock n' roll, every record sounded | '''Jerry:''' In the early days of rock n' roll, every record sounded real different: Starting around 1970 or so, things got really homogeneous. I remember a friend of mine saying there was no more country music, there was only suburban music. [''laughter''] Those cultural pockets of isolation don't exist anymore. | ||
real different: Starting around 1970 or so, things got really | |||
homogeneous. I remember a friend of mine saying there was no | |||
more country music, there was only suburban music. [''laughter''] | |||
Those cultural pockets of isolation don't exist anymore. | |||
'''Elvis:''' That's really true, though I'm nobody to talk because I learned music mostly through English bands who imitated American bands, or from American bands. Therefore I developed a sort of transatlantic style. But I appreciated the totally English rock 'n' roll sense of which there have only really been three — [[Ray Davies]], [[Ian Dury]] and Johnny Rotten. Even [[Joe Strummer]] really could have been an American with a strange accent. Now everybody's from a certain neighborhood, in the Bronx. Even the people in Manchester. | '''Elvis:''' That's really true, though I'm nobody to talk because I learned music mostly through English bands who imitated American bands, or from American bands. Therefore I developed a sort of transatlantic style. But I appreciated the totally English rock 'n' roll sense of which there have only really been three — [[Ray Davies]], [[Ian Dury]] and Johnny Rotten. Even [[Joe Strummer]] really could have been an American with a strange accent. Now everybody's from a certain neighborhood, in the Bronx. Even the people in Manchester. | ||
'''Jerry:''' Now you hear the strains of South African music in your | '''Jerry:''' Now you hear the strains of South African music in your neighborhood. | ||
neighborhood. | |||
'''Elvis:''' I do feel that sometime in the last 18 months we've | '''Elvis:''' I do feel that sometime in the last 18 months we've slipped into a Bizarro World, where Manchester is the center of the universe [''laughter''] and Donovan is a folk hero and Bob Dylan isn't any good anymore. | ||
slipped into a Bizarro World, where Manchester is the center of | |||
the universe [''laughter''] and Donovan is a folk hero and Bob | |||
Dylan isn't any good anymore. | |||
'''Jerry:''' It's a strange world. | '''Jerry:''' It's a strange world. | ||
'''Elvis:''' And part of that might be that the only person who grosses | '''Elvis:''' And part of that might be that the only person who grosses more money in the concert than the Grateful Dead is [[Frank Sinatra]]. On the other hand, it's a funny world where Frank can write a letter to the ''L.A. Times'' about George Michael, where Frank is actually hipper than this multi-million-selling pop star. I agree with him: George ''is'' on the top rung of a tall ladder called success, and he should loosen up and swing. I'm with Frank on this one. George could do with some swinging lessons. | ||
more money in the concert than the Grateful Dead is [[Frank Sinatra]]. On the other hand, it's a funny world where Frank can | |||
write a letter to the ''L.A. Times'' about George Michael, where | |||
Frank is actually hipper than this multi-million-selling pop | |||
star. I agree with him: George ''is'' on the top rung of a tall | |||
ladder called success, and he should loosen up and swing. I'm | |||
with Frank on this one. George could do with some swinging | |||
lessons. | |||
'''Jerry:''' He sure could! Well, there is a certain thing [Sinatra] | '''Jerry:''' He sure could! Well, there is a certain thing [Sinatra] does with songs that anybody can learn from. I don't know what that thing is exactly, but he has a way of turning a song into his own. He can sing a ballad better than I can, that's for damn sure. | ||
does with songs that anybody can learn from. I don't know what | |||
that thing is exactly, but he has a way of turning a song into | |||
his own. He can sing a ballad better than I can, that's for damn | |||
sure. | |||
'''Elvis:''' If you compare Sinatra's original stuff on Columbia to the | '''Elvis:''' If you compare Sinatra's original stuff on Columbia to the later period on Capitol — I don't know whether he did this consciously or just in terms of aging naturally from a young man to a middle-aged man — but he lowered his range, or he chose to sing lower. He can still hit the high notes in the Capitol records, but he didn't choose to; he often put them in a lower, more conversational range. Which is why people from that time feel they know him intimately. It was like he was talking to them. | ||
later period on Capitol — I don't know whether he did this | |||
consciously or just in terms of aging naturally from a young man | |||
to a middle-aged man — but he lowered his range, or he chose to | |||
sing lower. He can still hit the high notes in the Capitol | |||
records, but he didn't choose to; he often put them in a lower, | |||
more conversational range. Which is why people from that time | |||
feel they know him intimately. It was like he was talking to | |||
them. | |||
'''Jerry:''' The microphone produced that style of singing. Starting | '''Jerry:''' The microphone produced that style of singing. Starting with Bing Crosby. The thing of being able to sing at a conversational level — "crooning" — so you didn't have to below from the back of the room. All those Nelson Riddle arrangements are designed to surround that middle range and plug in the holes. There's almost no accompaniment when he's actually singing. | ||
with Bing Crosby. The thing of being able to sing at a | |||
conversational level — "crooning" — so you didn't have to below from | |||
the back of the room. All those Nelson Riddle arrangements are | |||
designed to surround that middle range and plug in the holes. | |||
There's almost no accompaniment when he's actually singing. | |||
'''Elvis:''' I have a track on the new record where we're doing a lot | '''Elvis:''' I have a track on the new record where we're doing a lot of things with bells, and celeste, toy piano. Trying to record the vocal, I had really difficulty because the register of the song kind of went right between two voices where I go into a harsher range, and as I went up there was all this obnoxious high end. Then we used an old RCA mike — | ||
of things with bells, and celeste, toy piano. Trying to record | |||
the vocal, I had really difficulty because the register of the | |||
song kind of went right between two voices where I go into a | |||
harsher range, and as I went up there was all this obnoxious high | |||
end. Then we used an old RCA mike — | |||
'''Jerry:''' It takes the overtones out — | '''Jerry:''' It takes the overtones out — | ||
'''Elvis:''' And suddenly you could hear it. You realize there's a lot | '''Elvis:''' And suddenly you could hear it. You realize there's a lot of overtones in your voice you don't need. | ||
of overtones in your voice you don't need. | |||
'''Jerry:''' I've always had a problem with Sennheisers and the other | '''Jerry:''' I've always had a problem with Sennheisers and the other German microphones, because they're designed for the Germanic percussives for the language, linguistically. So they're really heavy on the sibilants, on the crackling part of your speech. And if you have on earphones, the microphone makes you sing a certain way. So the thing is, the old ribbon microphones, if you can get them, will make you change the way you use your voice, and they make it so don't lean so much on that gravelly shit. | ||
German microphones, because they're designed for the Germanic | |||
percussives for the language, linguistically. So they're really | |||
heavy on the sibilants, on the crackling part of your speech. | |||
And if you have on earphones, the microphone makes you sing a | |||
certain way. So the thing is, the old ribbon microphones, if you | |||
can get them, will make you change the way you use your voice, | |||
and they make it so don't lean so much on that gravelly shit. | |||
'''Elvis:''' But you can sing rock 'n' roll into those microphones, | '''Elvis:''' But you can sing rock 'n' roll into those microphones, because they distort. They do the same thing as when you hear those Little Richard records: They seem to take up the whole room, because there's no high end at all. | ||
because they distort. They do the same thing as when you hear | |||
those Little Richard records: They seem to take up the whole | |||
room, because there's no high end at all. | |||
'''Jerry:''' He definitely distorted with that voice. | '''Jerry:''' He definitely distorted with that voice. | ||
'''Elvis:''' There are people who attack a song so hard that the mike | '''Elvis:''' There are people who attack a song so hard that the mike actually winces. I have a problem with a gap in my teeth. It's disgusting to talk about, but I spit on them. And that's then end of 'em. In the studio it's like: "He's coming again, lock up the good microphones!" | ||
actually winces. I have a problem with a gap in my teeth. It's | |||
disgusting to talk about, but I spit on them. And that's then | |||
end of 'em. In the studio it's like: "He's coming again, lock up | |||
the good microphones!" | |||
'''Jerry:''' Get the sponges. | '''Jerry:''' Get the sponges. | ||
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''Musician: When you're writing songs do you think about how your voice will carry it over? | ''Musician: When you're writing songs do you think about how your voice will carry it over? | ||
'''Jerry:''' I wish I were that meticulous about it. I'm not. I | '''Jerry:''' I wish I were that meticulous about it. I'm not. I always have to rewrite it into a more singable key for me. I write a lot on the piano, not on the guitar that much, and my transposing chops are not that great on the piano; I'll have all these in the key of C. I usually have to transpose. I view it as if I'm writing it for somebody to sing besides me. | ||
always have to rewrite it into a more singable key for me. I | |||
write a lot on the piano, not on the guitar that much, and my | |||
transposing chops are not that great on the piano; I'll have all | |||
these in the key of C. I usually have to transpose. I view it | |||
as if I'm writing it for somebody to sing besides me. | |||
'''Elvis:''' Do you have ambitions for any of your songs to be done by | '''Elvis:''' Do you have ambitions for any of your songs to be done by other people? 'Cause once again the whole Grateful Dead "thing" is probably a barrier to that: You couldn't really imagine someone saying, "I've got a great idea, let's send Frank Sinatra a Grateful Dead song!" But I can see Tony Bennett doing "Stella Blue," you know? | ||
other people? 'Cause once again the whole Grateful Dead "thing" | |||
is probably a barrier to that: You couldn't really imagine | |||
someone saying, "I've got a great idea, let's send Frank Sinatra | |||
a Grateful Dead song!" But I can see Tony Bennett doing "Stella | |||
Blue," you know? | |||
'''Jerry:''' Oh, yeah, [[Tony Bennett]] could definitely do "Stella Blue." | '''Jerry:''' Oh, yeah, [[Tony Bennett]] could definitely do "Stella Blue." I bet he'd do a wonderful job of it. I think it's got the kind of imagery those guys are used to, you know, that smoky barroom [''sings''] "Set 'em up, Joe"...a little of that flavor that those guys can probably get behind. | ||
I bet he'd do a wonderful job of it. I think it's got the kind | |||
of imagery those guys are used to, you know, that smoky barroom | |||
[''sings''] "Set 'em up, Joe"...a little of that flavor that those | |||
guys can probably get behind. | |||
'''Elvis:''' Has there ever been a Grateful Dead show where you decide, | '''Elvis:''' Has there ever been a Grateful Dead show where you decide, well, tonight we're just not going to go anywhere? 'Cause obviously, there are people who come for the moment when they can lose themselves. | ||
well, tonight we're just not going to go anywhere? 'Cause | |||
obviously, there are people who come for the moment when they can | |||
lose themselves. | |||
'''Jerry:''' Well, this is all part of a large misperception that goes | '''Jerry:''' Well, this is all part of a large misperception that goes on with the Grateful Dead. We think we are playing normal. [''laughter''] But we are constitutionally unable to do it. Departures for us are not necessarily departures. It all depends on your point of view. We basically don't have the rigor to do the other. We're not capable of it. | ||
on with the Grateful Dead. We think we are playing normal. | |||
[''laughter''] But we are constitutionally unable to do it. | |||
Departures for us are not necessarily departures. It all depends | |||
on your point of view. We basically don't have the rigor to do | |||
the other. We're not capable of it. | |||
''Musician: The Dead have remained relatively consistent in terms of what they're about, but the culture has changed quite a bit since the late '60s. | ''Musician: The Dead have remained relatively consistent in terms of what they're about, but the culture has changed quite a bit since the late '60s. | ||
'''Jerry:''' Well, those people all have real, authentic lives. | '''Jerry:''' Well, those people all have real, authentic lives. Their sense is as authentic as anybody else's. We've seen the cycle now several times. The people who were our fans in the '70s are now professionals. The kids who were in law school coming to our shows on weekends and getting crazy are now doctors and the heads of law schools. There are Deadheads all over society in every shape and size of experience. | ||
sense is as authentic as anybody else's. We've seen the cycle | |||
now several times. The people who were our fans in the '70s are | |||
now professionals. The kids who were in law school coming to our | |||
shows on weekends and getting crazy are now doctors and the heads | |||
of law schools. There are Deadheads all over society in every | |||
shape and size of experience. | |||
''Musician: But in the late '60s you were a paradigm of the surrounding culture; now it's more of an aberration. | ''Musician: But in the late '60s you were a paradigm of the surrounding culture; now it's more of an aberration. | ||
'''Jerry:''' We didn't fit into that much better than anything else. | '''Jerry:''' We didn't fit into that much better than anything else. We were part of the times, but certainly we didn't typify the experiences. We were more San Francisco while the rest of the world was following Berkeley, if you want to split hairs. We were not in that political reality that was so prominent in the late '60s and early '70s. | ||
We were part of the times, but certainly we didn't typify the | |||
experiences. We were more San Francisco while the rest of the | |||
world was following Berkeley, if you want to split hairs. We | |||
were not in that political reality that was so prominent in the | |||
late '60s and early '70s. | |||
'''Elvis:''' Plus, that's the approved ''Newsweek'' version of the '60s. | '''Elvis:''' Plus, that's the approved ''Newsweek'' version of the '60s. All the ''National Lampoon'' parodies of the alternative culture have come true — now you really can get '''60s Golden Protest Favorites'', a historical view which completely distorts that time. When you were 15 or 16 it was an enormously exciting time, and reading the magazines then you were really believing the sense that there was gonna be a revolution in '68, and then this moment of it "not happening." Now there's the "approved" version, which is that it was all some nice kind of outing people went through and then didn't so much wise up as start feeling sorry for themselves during the Carter administration, and then got embittered and self-serving during the Reagan administration. These historical vandals are changing history, putting spin control on it even before it's finished. | ||
All the ''National Lampoon'' parodies of the alternative culture | |||
have come true — now you really can get '''60s Golden Protest | |||
Favorites'', a historical view which completely distorts that | |||
time. When you were 15 or 16 it was an enormously exciting time, | |||
and reading the magazines then you were really believing the | |||
sense that there was gonna be a revolution in '68, and then this | |||
moment of it "not happening." Now there's the "approved" | |||
version, which is that it was all some nice kind of outing people | |||
went through and then didn't so much wise up as start feeling | |||
sorry for themselves during the Carter administration, and then | |||
got embittered and self-serving during the Reagan administration. | |||
These historical vandals are changing history, putting spin | |||
control on it even before it's finished. | |||
'''Jerry:''' We are still living out that history. Our original | '''Jerry:''' We are still living out that history. Our original alternative decisions are still alternatives. We're still acting it out; in that sense our revolution never ended. | ||
alternative decisions are still alternatives. We're still acting | |||
it out; in that sense our revolution never ended. | |||
'''Elvis:''' The ''Newsweek'' version is explaining real life to people | '''Elvis:''' The ''Newsweek'' version is explaining real life to people who haven't got time to live it. What I find difficult to take seriously now is some groups we have in England who are pretending to be on drugs. That's a very strange thing. Perhaps they're aware that doing the same drugs that achieved a certain effect in 1967 won't achieve the same effect now, because circumstances are so different. | ||
who haven't got time to live it. What I find difficult to take | |||
seriously now is some groups we have in England who are | |||
pretending to be on drugs. That's a very strange thing. Perhaps | |||
they're aware that doing the same drugs that achieved a certain | |||
effect in 1967 won't achieve the same effect now, because | |||
circumstances are so different. | |||
''Musician: Part of what makes the Dead meaningful to audiences is that it can still provide a different way of looking at the world. I think that's true with any great music. And I think that's been true with drugs as well. | ''Musician: Part of what makes the Dead meaningful to audiences is that it can still provide a different way of looking at the world. I think that's true with any great music. And I think that's been true with drugs as well. | ||
'''Jerry:''' I think some part of being human is to seek other levels | '''Jerry:''' I think some part of being human is to seek other levels of consciousness. It's human curiosity. If you watch kids play, they love to spin around in a circle until they get real dizzy, and then fall on the ground and laugh like hell. As soon as you know you can change your consciousness you want to do it as much as you possibly can. Because it's fun. And it's a human thing to want. I have no problem there. The only conflict is that there is somebody somewhere who finds that to be morally unsupportable. I don't know why. Of all the things to decide, "This is not a good thing to do," why changing consciousness? It's people who have such great fear of the unknown. Of what? More light? More information? | ||
of consciousness. It's human curiosity. If you watch kids play, | |||
they love to spin around in a circle until they get real dizzy, | |||
and then fall on the ground and laugh like hell. As soon as you | |||
know you can change your consciousness you want to do it as much | |||
as you possibly can. Because it's fun. And it's a human thing | |||
to want. I have no problem there. The only conflict is that | |||
there is somebody somewhere who finds that to be morally | |||
unsupportable. I don't know why. Of all the things to decide, | |||
"This is not a good thing to do," why changing consciousness? | |||
It's people who have such great fear of the unknown. Of what? | |||
More light? More information? | |||
Life is inherently dangerous — everybody dies. I'm not trying to | Life is inherently dangerous — everybody dies. I'm not trying to apologize for drugs, certainly. The biggest problem with drugs is that they're illegal, and you take on a lot of problems if you get busted. Back in the old days, LSD was not illegal. It wasn't a "drug." We could take LSD and apart from appearing to be really crazy, there was nothing that anybody could do to you. So it wasn't a paranoid kind of experience; you didn't worry for half of your trip if you were gonna get busted. Which is now a very real concern. | ||
apologize for drugs, certainly. The biggest problem with drugs | |||
is that they're illegal, and you take on a lot of problems if you | |||
get busted. Back in the old days, LSD was not illegal. It | |||
wasn't a "drug." We could take LSD and apart from appearing to | |||
be really crazy, there was nothing that anybody could do to you. | |||
So it wasn't a paranoid kind of experience; you didn't worry for | |||
half of your trip if you were gonna get busted. Which is now a | |||
very real concern. | |||
Getting high on a gig now is something I wouldn't do myself. | Getting high on a gig now is something I wouldn't do myself. Mostly because I feel the sense of responsibility to people who paid for tickets to come to a show and deserve to hear me play as well as I can, unimpaired. As far as making things more difficult for myself, that's something I might want to do — but I don't want to do it professionally. I've already done that, and I thing I've learned what there is to learn from it. But as far as the audience is concerned, the whole drug problem has been turned into such a cheap cause. | ||
Mostly because I feel the sense of responsibility to people who | |||
paid for tickets to come to a show and deserve to hear me play as | |||
well as I can, unimpaired. As far as making things more | |||
difficult for myself, that's something I might want to do — but I | |||
don't want to do it professionally. I've already done that, and | |||
I thing I've learned what there is to learn from it. But as far | |||
as the audience is concerned, the whole drug problem has been | |||
turned into such a cheap cause. | |||
'''Elvis:''' There are also bands taking very serious cocktails and all | '''Elvis:''' There are also bands taking very serious cocktails and all kinds of stimulants, and it's not the same thing as doing it to reach some pleasantly changed state of mind, which might have been seen as a possibility 25 years ago. Now it's the opposite — it's a blotting out. | ||
kinds of stimulants, and it's not the same thing as doing it to | |||
reach some pleasantly changed state of mind, which might have | |||
been seen as a possibility 25 years ago. Now it's the | |||
opposite — it's a blotting out. | |||
''Musician: But because that channel just doesn't work anymore or because it's being legally repressed, music's place becomes that much more important. | ''Musician: But because that channel just doesn't work anymore or because it's being legally repressed, music's place becomes that much more important. | ||
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{{Bibliography text}} | {{Bibliography text}} | ||
'''Jerry Garcia''': Doug Irwin, who lives in Santa Rosa, has been | '''Jerry Garcia''': Doug Irwin, who lives in Santa Rosa, has been making guitars for me since the early '70s. They're not set up like Stratocasters, three pickups, single-coil, with a five-way knifeblade switch. I've invented a kind of effects coil: It goes out through the pickups and before the selector switch in a loop, one side of a stereo cord back up the other side, into the guitar and out after the volume pot. So it's a regulated signal in which all of the set-voltage input-sensitive devices are received full blast form the guitar. I leave the pickups wide open. They come back into the guitar and I control their volume by the output knob. | ||
making guitars for me since the early '70s. They're not set up | |||
like Stratocasters, three pickups, single-coil, with a five-way | |||
knifeblade switch. I've invented a kind of effects coil: It goes | |||
out through the pickups and before the selector switch in a loop, | |||
one side of a stereo cord back up the other side, into the guitar | |||
and out after the volume pot. So it's a regulated signal in | |||
which all of the set-voltage input-sensitive devices are received | |||
full blast form the guitar. I leave the pickups wide open. They | |||
come back into the guitar and I control their volume by the | |||
output knob. | |||
I use strings by Tommy Vincey, who builds the string-winding | I use strings by Tommy Vincey, who builds the string-winding machine the other companies buy. He's out on Long Island. They have a small string company, and the strings are a combination of strings and nickel that have about 50 percent more efficiency than regular strings. They're very in tune--I never have to retune the bridge on the guitar, ever. They're that consistent. | ||
machine the other companies buy. He's out on Long Island. They | |||
have a small string company, and the strings are a combination of | |||
strings and nickel that have about 50 percent more efficiency | |||
than regular strings. They're very in tune--I never have to | |||
retune the bridge on the guitar, ever. They're that consistent. | |||
I still use a 1964 Fender Twin Reverb amp that's been rebuilt | I still use a 1964 Fender Twin Reverb amp that's been rebuilt about a million times. It goes into a McIntosh power amp and JBL speakers. That's it. I'm very straight-ahead. | ||
about a million times. It goes into a McIntosh power amp and JBL | |||
speakers. That's it. I'm very straight-ahead. | |||
'''Elvis Costello''': The only thing different from the last time I | '''Elvis Costello''': The only thing different from the last time I spoke to ''Musician'' [Jazzmaster; mid-'60s Gretsch Country Club; '60s Rickenbacker and Telecaster electric guitars; Gibson Country; '30s Martin and Santa Cruz acoustics] is that different guitars go in and out of favor. The only modifications on my Jazzmasters from the day I bought them is the scroll work on the neck. I use two vintage MusicMan amps and Ernie Ball strings, pretty heavy-gauge. Then only effects I use are the tremolo, I use a lot of that. It's the non-guitar player's friend. My main instrument at home has been the piano, a Bechstein baby grand which is way beyond my capabilities. | ||
spoke to ''Musician'' [Jazzmaster; mid-'60s Gretsch Country Club; | |||
'60s Rickenbacker and Telecaster electric guitars; Gibson | |||
Country; '30s Martin and Santa Cruz acoustics] is that different | |||
guitars go in and out of favor. The only modifications on my | |||
Jazzmasters from the day I bought them is the scroll work on the | |||
neck. I use two vintage MusicMan amps and Ernie Ball strings, | |||
pretty heavy-gauge. Then only effects I use are the tremolo, I | |||
use a lot of that. It's the non-guitar player's friend. My main | |||
instrument at home has been the piano, a Bechstein baby grand | |||
which is way beyond my capabilities. | |||
{{cx}} | {{cx}} |
Revision as of 01:36, 16 October 2013
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