Mr. Average,
My kids are still far too young for Pulp Fiction, but when they're old enough, I'll watch it with them as well. I want my son, who just turned 5, to be able to appreciate aa wide variety of art forms. My wife and I yesterday took our sons to the Kimbell Museum in Fort Worth yesterday to look at Turner's paintings of Venice. Then we walked across the street to the The Modern and took a look at their permanent collection. A lot of Warhol and a couple of Pollacks, along with a few really outstanding pieces by ilbert and George, Lichtenstein, and a couple of Picassos and Rothkos. It's a really impressive permanent collection. My son responded with great enthusiasm to the modern art. We're probably going to sign him up fr an art camp they hold there every summer. There was one piece that was visually very disturbing. I caught a glimpse of it before he did, and I directed everyone to another room in the gallery. He's too young to not be scared by something like that. But when he's old enough, we'll talk about it and he'll be able to better grasp the artist's intent.
It's like luggage in a sense. I don't make him carry a suitcase when we travel, because he's not old enough to carry it. Not strong enough to bear that burden. As soon as he can carry the load himself, he'll carry his own bag. To allow him to do so now (or to force him to) would be abusive, I think.
It's the same with art. I want him to hear more than just children's music. I play De La Soul, The Beatles, Elvis (of course), Mozart, Peter Gabriel, Nusrat Fateh Ali Kahn, The Beastie Boys, Outkast, and everything else I think is worthy in the car. But he's getting the edited versions now, because he can't handle the raw lyrics. I don't want to wait until he's 12 or older to expose him to the joys of hip hop. That doesn't mean I have to play him the unedited Straight Outta Compton, though. A lot of parenting is just common sense. I don't see what's so controversial about that.
Does politics belong at the Oscars? Elvis answers
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noiseradio
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Mr. Average
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noiseradio
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noiseradio
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Rope,
You're right that Wal-Mart wants it both ways. But so do the artists. Like I said, Nirvana wanted the anti-corporate posturing, but they wanted to sell cds at Wal-Mart more. They weren't forced to make the change (I checked). They griped about it, but they made the change anyway.
Outkast's album was edited by the band themselves. So the edits are theirs. And they're very well done. Prince put out an album in 1992 that was titled with that same glyph he started using for a name a little later. He released two versions of it. The edited one still contained the song "Sexy M.F.," but whenever he sang that phrase, it was rendered "Sexy mother owwww-waa!" with the f-word replaced by his signature howl. He chose the edit, and I actually like that version a lot. It's more suggestive than explicit, and it's just as funky. Prince clearly wanted it both ways though. He made two versions to sell more records. No one tells Prince what to do.
And none of them HAVE to appease the giant. Wal-Mart is a corporate giant, but you have to make the product available for them to sell. If you don't make an edited version, then they can't carry your art. If it means that much to you as an artist, then take a stand. Bu everyone makes edited versions for Wal-Mart. There's no major release that doesn't come out both ways.
You're right that Wal-Mart wants it both ways. But so do the artists. Like I said, Nirvana wanted the anti-corporate posturing, but they wanted to sell cds at Wal-Mart more. They weren't forced to make the change (I checked). They griped about it, but they made the change anyway.
Outkast's album was edited by the band themselves. So the edits are theirs. And they're very well done. Prince put out an album in 1992 that was titled with that same glyph he started using for a name a little later. He released two versions of it. The edited one still contained the song "Sexy M.F.," but whenever he sang that phrase, it was rendered "Sexy mother owwww-waa!" with the f-word replaced by his signature howl. He chose the edit, and I actually like that version a lot. It's more suggestive than explicit, and it's just as funky. Prince clearly wanted it both ways though. He made two versions to sell more records. No one tells Prince what to do.
And none of them HAVE to appease the giant. Wal-Mart is a corporate giant, but you have to make the product available for them to sell. If you don't make an edited version, then they can't carry your art. If it means that much to you as an artist, then take a stand. Bu everyone makes edited versions for Wal-Mart. There's no major release that doesn't come out both ways.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
--William Shakespeare
--William Shakespeare
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laughingcrow
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I agree with both of you, and not having kids I respect your judgements...I wonder though whether or not the lyrics in a song might effect the child less than something it sees (and in a way is indirectly experiencing, e.g I saw 2 seconds of a horror film when I was 7ish, and it scared me).
I suppose when it comes to sexual references - that's where you have to be careful with children (although I remember finding The Eurythmics' '1984' where the chorus is 'SEX CRIME' very amusing as a lad).
I suppose when it comes to sexual references - that's where you have to be careful with children (although I remember finding The Eurythmics' '1984' where the chorus is 'SEX CRIME' very amusing as a lad).
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selfmademug
Well, one day when I was maybe 7, my parents came home with the soundtrack to the latest Broadway show they'd seen, and I fell in love with it. Soon enough I was singing (among other things from this record):
Sodomy
Fellatio
Cunnilingus
Pederasty
Father, why do these words sound so nasty?
Masturbation
Can be fun
Join the holy orgy
Kama Sutra
Everyone!
(That is from HAIR, of course, btw.) On the one hand, I had no idea what I was singing about, but understood it was a song of challenge and so knew better than to sing it in public. On the other hand, look how I turned out...!
And it is very political stuff. In 10th Grade I had to read a novel and write a paper on it for Sociology class (?!). My Dad recomended CATCHER IN THE RYE, which I immediately read and adored. My teacher almost forbade me from using that book because it was 'filthy.' It was then I knew that I couldn't expect that things I -and even my parents-- thought to be right and true might be looked upon as something very dfferent by oter people, even adults and even, gasp, TEACHERS. A big and good lesson. What a total dickhead that teacher was, btw.
With my son, I expose him to as much as I think is good for him. If he sees or hears something I wish he hadn't, we talk about it. He is five. I did explain to him about Madrid, and we saw the news and I told him he should cover his eyes during part of it because it was awful and scary to see, and he did. And then we talked some more about it, including how scary and sad and just plain unbelievable it was. I think that's all you can really do. I want him to know there is evil in this world, and that it is very very different from the evil in cartoons-- more complicated, more real, more sad, and harder to fix-- but I don't want him to freak out. He seems to be doing fine.
Sodomy
Fellatio
Cunnilingus
Pederasty
Father, why do these words sound so nasty?
Masturbation
Can be fun
Join the holy orgy
Kama Sutra
Everyone!
(That is from HAIR, of course, btw.) On the one hand, I had no idea what I was singing about, but understood it was a song of challenge and so knew better than to sing it in public. On the other hand, look how I turned out...!
And it is very political stuff. In 10th Grade I had to read a novel and write a paper on it for Sociology class (?!). My Dad recomended CATCHER IN THE RYE, which I immediately read and adored. My teacher almost forbade me from using that book because it was 'filthy.' It was then I knew that I couldn't expect that things I -and even my parents-- thought to be right and true might be looked upon as something very dfferent by oter people, even adults and even, gasp, TEACHERS. A big and good lesson. What a total dickhead that teacher was, btw.
With my son, I expose him to as much as I think is good for him. If he sees or hears something I wish he hadn't, we talk about it. He is five. I did explain to him about Madrid, and we saw the news and I told him he should cover his eyes during part of it because it was awful and scary to see, and he did. And then we talked some more about it, including how scary and sad and just plain unbelievable it was. I think that's all you can really do. I want him to know there is evil in this world, and that it is very very different from the evil in cartoons-- more complicated, more real, more sad, and harder to fix-- but I don't want him to freak out. He seems to be doing fine.
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noiseradio
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Mug,
Sounds like you're doing a good job with your son. I don't like the soundtrack to Hair myself, but not because it's nasty. Just don't like the songs. I love Sweeny Todd, though. And when my son is old enough, we'll watch it (coming soon on dvd).
We have to make the call as parents. It's our job. On the other hand, I always appreciate it when networks and radio stations help me out by not making it impossible for me to tune in during the hours when my sons might be listening. I'm not talking about MTV. Anyone who lets their 5 year old watching MTV is being neglectful IMHO (especially unsupervised). But I ought to be able to tune in to NBC at 5 in the afternoon without worrying about content. I can't always, and I'm aware of that (thank goodness for VCRs and DVD players. And there are always books).
Crow,
I agree that the visual is more memorable than the auditory. I would worry more about my child watching a horror movie than accidentally catching a bad word on the radio. But I avoid both with my kids for now.
"...because a child watches 1500 murders before he's 12 years old,
and we wonder why we've created a Jason generation
that learns to laugh, rather than abhor the horror..."
--Television, The Drug of a Nation, Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy
Sounds like you're doing a good job with your son. I don't like the soundtrack to Hair myself, but not because it's nasty. Just don't like the songs. I love Sweeny Todd, though. And when my son is old enough, we'll watch it (coming soon on dvd).
We have to make the call as parents. It's our job. On the other hand, I always appreciate it when networks and radio stations help me out by not making it impossible for me to tune in during the hours when my sons might be listening. I'm not talking about MTV. Anyone who lets their 5 year old watching MTV is being neglectful IMHO (especially unsupervised). But I ought to be able to tune in to NBC at 5 in the afternoon without worrying about content. I can't always, and I'm aware of that (thank goodness for VCRs and DVD players. And there are always books).
Crow,
I agree that the visual is more memorable than the auditory. I would worry more about my child watching a horror movie than accidentally catching a bad word on the radio. But I avoid both with my kids for now.
"...because a child watches 1500 murders before he's 12 years old,
and we wonder why we've created a Jason generation
that learns to laugh, rather than abhor the horror..."
--Television, The Drug of a Nation, Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
--William Shakespeare
--William Shakespeare
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crash8_durham
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re: Hair
We had a player piano when I was a kid and my dad bought a big box of pop music rolls, including Hair. The lyrics were complete and fully explicit, and the box came with a set of stickers that said "Censored" if you wanted to paste them on over top of the paper roll. For years, I never clued in what the stickers were for - I sang along about masturbation and sodomy and all the drugs and had no clue what the lyrics were about. (Though I did know what "Shit!" meant - that was a favourite lyric with all of us...)
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noiseradio
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Teaching your kids about things is fine. But a five year old doesn't need to know all the ins and outs of drug use and sex. There's no benefit to a preschooler from knowing about anal sex or how heroin is shot up. They don't have to watch grisly murders in films to understand that bad people do bad things and that sometimes people get killed. Exposing your children to everything you can handle is irresponsible parenting.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
--William Shakespeare
--William Shakespeare
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bambooneedle
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The whole Wallmart-approved-cd philosophy is asswipe... so is everything that gives rise to it (including the musicians/record companies to whatever degree it supports it). I didn't mean to or single you out especially... your post let me look clearly at the implications of it (the asswipe philosophy), and find it deplorable.Is it just me, or did bambooneedle call me an asswipe?
Some thoughts later... gotta go.
I agree with your idea that a retailer should be able to carry what it wants, however, at the WalMart in question there was definitely NO designation that the album was edited, which the store later admitted. Even so, they told me that it was the manufacturer's responsibility to label it, not theirs, a sentiment I disagreed with, since they were the point of purchase carrier.noiseradio wrote:The sticker on the top of CDs at Wal-Mart gives the name of the Artist and the name of the Album. If it's an edited album, it says "edited" right there. But whether you buy cds from Wal-Mart or not, they have the right to refuse to sell unedited discs. They don't have to sell pink lamps or plaid trousers, either. If one of those things offends you, you can buy from another retailer
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noiseradio
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pophead2k,
You got hosed. Sorry. I agree that Wal-Mart should identify their products more clearly.
Bamboo,
Thanks for clarifying. (Still, doesn't that make me one of many asswipes, since I buy edited CDs sometimes on purpose?...
)
You got hosed. Sorry. I agree that Wal-Mart should identify their products more clearly.
Bamboo,
Thanks for clarifying. (Still, doesn't that make me one of many asswipes, since I buy edited CDs sometimes on purpose?...
)"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
--William Shakespeare
--William Shakespeare
THANK YOU SO MUCH, NOISE! I couldn't (of coursenoiseradio wrote:Teaching your kids about things is fine. But a five year old doesn't need to know all the ins and outs of drug use and sex. There's no benefit to a preschooler from knowing about anal sex or how heroin is shot up. They don't have to watch grisly murders in films to understand that bad people do bad things and that sometimes people get killed. Exposing your children to everything you can handle is irresponsible parenting.
) have said that any better.Crash~ do you have any kids? Well, whether you do or not, you need to have a good think about what you've said. I say that very confidently and from real experience.
EXACTLY!!!! Sex, drugs, war, AIDS...... kids are facing that every day and that's where I, as a responsible parent come in. Of course we want to "protect" our children from all these brutal realities, but that's just unrealistic. Everything today is "in your face". Anything goes. There are no limits. Children need boundaries. They make them feel secure and cared about. A six year old just is not capable of understanding such things. I don't put blinders on my kids because, yes, they'll need to someday face these issues and hopefully, I am preparing them to do so. When things come up, when they have a question or a worry (whether they're six or sixteen), when they wonder about something, I'm there to try and explain it and to teach them values and morals so they will be more equipt to understand those very adult issues. That's my job as a parent, my obligation and my responsibility for bringing that child into this world. Not an easy undertaking.
Where do you think all these fucked up people come from in this world?
Through no fault of their own, they are the product of irresponsible parents.
I'm not angry anymore....
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crash8_durham
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I AM a parent. I have a 13 year old daughter. I am very close with her and I am very involved with her and her friends. As an involved parent with open ears I hear things coming from her peers that I cannot believe they know. In their conversations they mention aids, sex, oral sex, rape,violence they have seen on tv and in person, kids who have masturbated in school, other kids that they know smoke pot and are involved in other drugs, where they know kids buy their drugs, and much more.
As a responcible parent I feel it is my duty to listen, dig in and know these things because that is what my child is dealing with every day. Beyond that, it is an enlightened parent who will sit down and explain all of these things to a child so that they don't have to face it alone, afraid, unsure and uninformed. If someone other than you is the "teacher" for your child on some of these subjects then I hope for the best for your kids but I would much rather take my chances having my daughter know what she is going to run into and what she is up against. You can't control the world around her. You can only teach her what is right and wrong and educate her and hope that when she is faced with these kinds of dicisions that she will make the right ones when parents are not there to protect them.
Now. Obviously I did not do this when she was 6. But it won't be long before your 6 year old is a teen and I suggest having a long "think" about how you will deal with what is coming for her or him. You can try to shelter and protect them at home but you had better look and listen and pay attention to the rest of the world around them.
You may think I am not a responcible parent but in my opinion, if I don't do these things it is much more irresponcible and the one who will suffer later will be her.
As a responcible parent I feel it is my duty to listen, dig in and know these things because that is what my child is dealing with every day. Beyond that, it is an enlightened parent who will sit down and explain all of these things to a child so that they don't have to face it alone, afraid, unsure and uninformed. If someone other than you is the "teacher" for your child on some of these subjects then I hope for the best for your kids but I would much rather take my chances having my daughter know what she is going to run into and what she is up against. You can't control the world around her. You can only teach her what is right and wrong and educate her and hope that when she is faced with these kinds of dicisions that she will make the right ones when parents are not there to protect them.
Now. Obviously I did not do this when she was 6. But it won't be long before your 6 year old is a teen and I suggest having a long "think" about how you will deal with what is coming for her or him. You can try to shelter and protect them at home but you had better look and listen and pay attention to the rest of the world around them.
You may think I am not a responcible parent but in my opinion, if I don't do these things it is much more irresponcible and the one who will suffer later will be her.
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spooky girlfriend
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I understand you, crash. Jessica will be 15 in May and although she doesn't tell me everything, I think she feels that she can tell me anything she wants. Of course teenagers make a conscious choice to not tell parents everything - but I know that she feels she can come to me with anything she DOES want to talk about.
We watch movies and tv shows WITH her. It's really beginning to show that we must have done a decent job raising her because I'll hear her make comments like, "that's sick" or "just change the channel." A few times I've explained things to her that she didn't completely understand and she's accepting of hearing it from me.
I don't mind talking about sensitive issues with my kids. I'd rather be open and frank with them - when they're at the proper age for whatever the subject matter might be.
Sex, I can talk about. As for driving, well, I think we've decided to send Jess to a driving school for that. She'll probably listen better to someone else on that subject. DrS remembers his dad saying something about "there's not being enough beer in Nashville to be the one to teach my own kids how to drive."
We watch movies and tv shows WITH her. It's really beginning to show that we must have done a decent job raising her because I'll hear her make comments like, "that's sick" or "just change the channel." A few times I've explained things to her that she didn't completely understand and she's accepting of hearing it from me.
I don't mind talking about sensitive issues with my kids. I'd rather be open and frank with them - when they're at the proper age for whatever the subject matter might be.
Sex, I can talk about. As for driving, well, I think we've decided to send Jess to a driving school for that. She'll probably listen better to someone else on that subject. DrS remembers his dad saying something about "there's not being enough beer in Nashville to be the one to teach my own kids how to drive."
Last edited by spooky girlfriend on Fri Mar 19, 2004 11:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
re: driving
i've just taken on the task of assisting an 18yr old to get her driver's license. she's a great kid (yes, she's a kid for this topic), but her parents stress her when driving. as did mine when i needed to learn.
my girl scout troop leader taught me. i figure it's time for payback.
i am too kind for my own good, i think.
i've just taken on the task of assisting an 18yr old to get her driver's license. she's a great kid (yes, she's a kid for this topic), but her parents stress her when driving. as did mine when i needed to learn.
my girl scout troop leader taught me. i figure it's time for payback.
i am too kind for my own good, i think.
... name the stars and constellations,
count the cars and watch the seasons....
count the cars and watch the seasons....
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mood swung
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I've had to do two things (so far) in my life that were just incredibly physically hard: one had to do with the birth of my last kid so I'll spare you the details, but the other--and I never saw it coming--was to sit in the passenger seat trying to teach #1 son to drive. It just goes against all those primal protect-the-progeny instincts I have fine-tuned over 18 years of motherhood. Their Dad gets to teach the next 'un.
Like me, the "g" is silent.
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bambooneedle
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Noise, you bought them with your own money? 
Did you tell them that they were only edited versions because otherwise you might lose your job?
I'd assume that there'd be plenty of major releases that Wallmart could find nothing to disapprove about though, just cos they don't have swearing. If it's were just Elvis saying "funniest fucker in the world" edited on a cd, just thinking about why would piss me off no less if i'd bought it unwittingly.... I mean, there's no way that I would enjoy a CD like say Eminem (if I were a parent who liked Eminem) while giving my kids one with one with heaps of words edited... that would seem hypocritical, and the kind of thinking that Wallmart knows it will profit from.
I don't know about "you don't know until you have kids..." as a basis for understanding, being able to imagine seeing things as a child having been one and being reminded by friends' kids etc.
Also, kids will be exposed to almost everything anyway, but I don't recall ever being too overwhelmed (or overburdened) by anything I "couldn't handle", besides by adults freaking out around me. Otherwise, the brain isn't overwhelmed because it will only process what it can, on its own terms; it just can't interpret things like an adult -- it's mainly the imposing of adults' fuss onto kids that is the problem, in my view.
So just take him out to the Wallmart carpark when it's closed and leave him alone to drive, moody
Did you tell them that they were only edited versions because otherwise you might lose your job?I'd assume that there'd be plenty of major releases that Wallmart could find nothing to disapprove about though, just cos they don't have swearing. If it's were just Elvis saying "funniest fucker in the world" edited on a cd, just thinking about why would piss me off no less if i'd bought it unwittingly.... I mean, there's no way that I would enjoy a CD like say Eminem (if I were a parent who liked Eminem) while giving my kids one with one with heaps of words edited... that would seem hypocritical, and the kind of thinking that Wallmart knows it will profit from.
I don't know about "you don't know until you have kids..." as a basis for understanding, being able to imagine seeing things as a child having been one and being reminded by friends' kids etc.
Also, kids will be exposed to almost everything anyway, but I don't recall ever being too overwhelmed (or overburdened) by anything I "couldn't handle", besides by adults freaking out around me. Otherwise, the brain isn't overwhelmed because it will only process what it can, on its own terms; it just can't interpret things like an adult -- it's mainly the imposing of adults' fuss onto kids that is the problem, in my view.
So just take him out to the Wallmart carpark when it's closed and leave him alone to drive, moody
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Goody2Shoes
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Right on, bambooo! I so agree with that. This is not to say that I don't try to find age-appropriate materials for my kids, but I agree that kids process what they can. Would I let my 8-year-old see Pulp Fiction, for example? No, but not for the reasons you might think. She just wouldn't get most of it, and she would be bored, and no one enjoys an activity when the young 'uns are bored. And until such time it is not beyond her comprehension, there are many other great things to share. One of her favorite movies is Young Frankenstein. There is enough silly humor there to amuse her, and the more adult stuff goes clear over her head. She asked what a "big schwanstucker" (I think that's the line) was, I told her it meant big penis, she thought that was pretty funny, but would have found "big kneecaps" just as funny. See what I mean? She just doesn't get it. She knows the difference between public and private, appropriate and inappropriate, and that is because we have talked about this since she was very little.bambooneedle wrote: Also, kids will be exposed to almost everything anyway, but I don't recall ever being too overwhelmed (or overburdened) by anything I "couldn't handle", besides by adults freaking out around me. Otherwise, the brain isn't overwhelmed because it will only process what it can, on its own terms; it just can't interpret things like an adult -- it's mainly the imposing of adults' fuss onto kids that is the problem, in my view.
We do draw the line at violence, however, because I do believe that constant exposure at young ages does kind of innure them to real suffering. She does know that sometimes people do violence upon others and that this is a fact of life. Kids see movies and TV as entertainment, not necessarily as education, and I don't like to form the association between violence and entertainment.
You are right that kids are exposed to everything. Despite all our machinations as gatekeepers, sometimes something just gets sprung on you. Last summer, our neighbor across the street committed suicide, and another neighbor (an adult, with children of her own!) took it upon herself to tell all the kids on our street the exact mode of death. That was one conversation I did not want to have with my then-7-year-old. But my point is, and I do have one, believe it or not, is that control is taken out of our hands sometimes, and what matters most is not the event, but how we as adults respond to it.
It's a radiation vibe I'm groovin' on
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mood swung
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noiseradio
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Goody,
The fact that you draw the line at violence means you draw a line, which is my point. Parents have to draw the line for their own kids. Your kids and my kids may have different lines, but it's out respective jobs to figure that out.
Bamboo,
I wonder sometimes if you read my whole posts or just skim them for flavor. I must have said in two places at least that I bought the cds for school and so my own kids would be able to listen to music that I otherwise wouldn't want them to hear. A song isn't just the lyrics. The music itself is at least a big a draw for most people. Great lyrics with a bad melody makes for good poetry. Hip hop is an art form that I respect a lot. I think the last 2 Outkast albums are superb musically. I don't like lyrically what some of the songs have to say, especially for my 5 tear old. The edited version allows me to play him some of those songs without worrying about him being exposed to stuff he's not ready for. Some songs are about perfectly fine subjects, but throw in unfortunate profanity. The edited versions of those songs don't suffer much at all from the missing words. (No more than they do when you hear them on the radio). Some songs' subject matter is objectionable regardless of profanity. I skip those songs in the classroom and in the car, edit or no. In the classroom, I think it would be presumptuous of me to impose what I find acceptable on other people's kids. And in the car, it's my kids, so it's my call.
Ironically, the EC song you mentioned (How to Be Dumb, right?) would be sold as is at Wal-Mart. As I understand it, they only insist on edited versions for cds that are overtly full of profanity (which MLAR isn't) or which are stickered "Parental Advisory Explicit lyrics" by the record companies. Can't say for sure, but I'm fairly certain that I'm right.
The fact that you draw the line at violence means you draw a line, which is my point. Parents have to draw the line for their own kids. Your kids and my kids may have different lines, but it's out respective jobs to figure that out.
Bamboo,
I wonder sometimes if you read my whole posts or just skim them for flavor. I must have said in two places at least that I bought the cds for school and so my own kids would be able to listen to music that I otherwise wouldn't want them to hear. A song isn't just the lyrics. The music itself is at least a big a draw for most people. Great lyrics with a bad melody makes for good poetry. Hip hop is an art form that I respect a lot. I think the last 2 Outkast albums are superb musically. I don't like lyrically what some of the songs have to say, especially for my 5 tear old. The edited version allows me to play him some of those songs without worrying about him being exposed to stuff he's not ready for. Some songs are about perfectly fine subjects, but throw in unfortunate profanity. The edited versions of those songs don't suffer much at all from the missing words. (No more than they do when you hear them on the radio). Some songs' subject matter is objectionable regardless of profanity. I skip those songs in the classroom and in the car, edit or no. In the classroom, I think it would be presumptuous of me to impose what I find acceptable on other people's kids. And in the car, it's my kids, so it's my call.
Ironically, the EC song you mentioned (How to Be Dumb, right?) would be sold as is at Wal-Mart. As I understand it, they only insist on edited versions for cds that are overtly full of profanity (which MLAR isn't) or which are stickered "Parental Advisory Explicit lyrics" by the record companies. Can't say for sure, but I'm fairly certain that I'm right.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
--William Shakespeare
--William Shakespeare
Crash~ Your two posts kind of contradict eachother. In your second (reply to mine), you're reiterating what I just said!
I did not say you were an irresponsible parent, I was merely commenting on your statement and that you didn't "think" about it enough before you made it. I don't know, perhaps it was a thought taken out of context or related to some previous thoughts you've expressed in earlier posts that I haven't read. None-the-less, we seem to be in agreement about it.
So you said your daughter has brought these things up to you.....so yes! it's a topic for discussion! I was assuming that you were referring to a much younger child in your first post, (I don't know why) but by the time a kid is 13, I would hope a parent would have been well into discussions about ......anything and everything! I am very open with my kids about everything and we talk about everything under the sun...probably to the point where they cringe when I come into their rooms and "wanna talk"! But it's good, it's comfortable and somewhat comforting to know we can interact this way. I'm glad that you and your daughter can do the same.
(BTW~ I'm a stay-at-home-mom. I have four children ages 8, 11, 15 and 20. They're good kids. My oldest is a soph in college and and on the dean's list. He's also an Eagle Scout and an accomplished musician. He's a great kid~intelligent, thoughtful....and very handsome. I'm extremely proud of him. And the others as well. (I could go on about them too, but I don't want to be a bore!
)
I did not say you were an irresponsible parent, I was merely commenting on your statement and that you didn't "think" about it enough before you made it. I don't know, perhaps it was a thought taken out of context or related to some previous thoughts you've expressed in earlier posts that I haven't read. None-the-less, we seem to be in agreement about it.
So you said your daughter has brought these things up to you.....so yes! it's a topic for discussion! I was assuming that you were referring to a much younger child in your first post, (I don't know why) but by the time a kid is 13, I would hope a parent would have been well into discussions about ......anything and everything! I am very open with my kids about everything and we talk about everything under the sun...probably to the point where they cringe when I come into their rooms and "wanna talk"! But it's good, it's comfortable and somewhat comforting to know we can interact this way. I'm glad that you and your daughter can do the same.
(BTW~ I'm a stay-at-home-mom. I have four children ages 8, 11, 15 and 20. They're good kids. My oldest is a soph in college and and on the dean's list. He's also an Eagle Scout and an accomplished musician. He's a great kid~intelligent, thoughtful....and very handsome. I'm extremely proud of him. And the others as well. (I could go on about them too, but I don't want to be a bore!
)
Last edited by SweetPear on Sat Mar 20, 2004 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm not angry anymore....
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bambooneedle
- Posts: 4533
- Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2003 4:02 pm
- Location: a few thousand miles south east of Zanzibar
Goody, your have a very practical approach and doesn't pragmatism rule over theory. Though, I've had occassion to give thought over time to "what if I ever have a kid or more..?", having read solid stuff -- the best book was The Mind Gymnasium by Denis Postle (just discovered that some of it is online now http://www.mind-gymnasium.com/TheMindGy ... spages.htm -- from folk I know who have been involved in child minding, behavioural science, and related study, and just from consequent observation. I was fascinated in that it initially caused reflection on and re-evaluation of my own childhood experiences, but ultimately to form general and more specific real views. The main issues as I see them revolve around trust/confidence in and within a child and the explicit fostering of their independence. Suffice to say IMO the common (and archaic) emphasis on parental "authority" is usually quite counterproductive and disempowering, because there's overdependence on it, from both sides. Well, I became my own man, and I've noticed the difference in how they say my name though I did seriously consider changing it to Frank once...
Noise, I knew you went and bought the CDs, but they might've been chosen as "acceptable material" at the school's request and with their money (Anyway, never mind...). But you emphasized that you didn't want to risk your job... so I thought you might've liked to be allowed to play them the unedited versions which you like better yourself (though you did say the mtv and radio (edited) versions were alright for class) -- also the reason why I wondered whether you'd broached the editing matter to them. It's only NOW that you've stated the reason why you wouldn't -- for not imposing it on other people's kids. So I was somewhat confused.
)
I was at a friend's place and his nephews were there -- they're 5 and 8 and stay with their church-going grandparents. Some inane movie that featured occassional boob flashing was on, but they'd automatically look away each time then look at me for my reaction... all I did was unflinchingly look at those boobs and smile slightly at them and now they think I'm Mr. Cool.Goody2Shoes wrote:what matters most is not the event, but how we as adults respond to it.
Noise, I knew you went and bought the CDs, but they might've been chosen as "acceptable material" at the school's request and with their money (Anyway, never mind...). But you emphasized that you didn't want to risk your job... so I thought you might've liked to be allowed to play them the unedited versions which you like better yourself (though you did say the mtv and radio (edited) versions were alright for class) -- also the reason why I wondered whether you'd broached the editing matter to them. It's only NOW that you've stated the reason why you wouldn't -- for not imposing it on other people's kids. So I was somewhat confused.
Regardless, I long lost interest in the finer distinctinctions at the lower end of the asswipe scale... there are much bigger fish to fry. (Sigh) Sometimes I'm so forgiving... (noiseradio wrote:Still, doesn't that make me one of many asswipes, since I buy edited CDs sometimes on purpose?...
)Regarding the Walmart CD's~ I too intentionally buy the edited version CD's at Walmart and Sam's Club for the same reasons Noise does. My kids want to hear the stuff and sometimes (a lot of the time) it's okay for the older ones and not the younger ones. I find it a happy medium since my kids range so much in age (youngest 8 and oldest 20) and I spend a lot of time in the car carting everyone around. But it's not always the case. I don't just seek out to buy edited versions of CD's. No matter what my kids are listening to, I'm always aware of what's going on and I always listen to it first.
I don't know if this is true at all Walmarts or just the ones around here, but they do have a very limited selection of the music that's available that could probably be edited to reach that targeted market of younger listeners. I didn't realize that the artist, per-say, was actually giving their permission as to whether their work would be released in edited form. (But that of course makes perfect sense.) Is that the reason for the limited selection or is it just Walmart choosing to sell only certain ones?
It's funny Noise, I just went through the same thing with my 11yr. old daughter and the latest Outkast CD. "Hey Ya" was such a catchy tune and we wanted the disc but my oldest son informed me that it
really, REALLY wasn't for young ears. He was so right. They're two really good discs and I like Outkast a lot but it wasn't realistic to think I was really ever going to have a chance to listen to it. We got the edited version (and while heavily edited and if you've heard it you can see why.) It was the perfect compromise. My younger ones don't know what they're missing, they're just diggin the music. I think if you can look at the editing issue within that scenario, it's a little easier to swallow.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not for censoreship. It's more about appropriateness. I know that places like Walmart (and the record companies) are doing it to make a bigger buck~ such is the capitalistic way. But let's be real, with our anything goes society, it's probably more like a necessary evil.
DISCLAIMER:
I haven't read all the posts, just the last few, so forgive me if there was something mentioned that I missed.
I don't know if this is true at all Walmarts or just the ones around here, but they do have a very limited selection of the music that's available that could probably be edited to reach that targeted market of younger listeners. I didn't realize that the artist, per-say, was actually giving their permission as to whether their work would be released in edited form. (But that of course makes perfect sense.) Is that the reason for the limited selection or is it just Walmart choosing to sell only certain ones?
It's funny Noise, I just went through the same thing with my 11yr. old daughter and the latest Outkast CD. "Hey Ya" was such a catchy tune and we wanted the disc but my oldest son informed me that it
really, REALLY wasn't for young ears. He was so right. They're two really good discs and I like Outkast a lot but it wasn't realistic to think I was really ever going to have a chance to listen to it. We got the edited version (and while heavily edited and if you've heard it you can see why.) It was the perfect compromise. My younger ones don't know what they're missing, they're just diggin the music. I think if you can look at the editing issue within that scenario, it's a little easier to swallow.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not for censoreship. It's more about appropriateness. I know that places like Walmart (and the record companies) are doing it to make a bigger buck~ such is the capitalistic way. But let's be real, with our anything goes society, it's probably more like a necessary evil.
DISCLAIMER:
I haven't read all the posts, just the last few, so forgive me if there was something mentioned that I missed.
I'm not angry anymore....