oh my! especially obvious in the instrumental part that plays before d.c. is asked to sing. seems like the full melody over:
C...........................Am7...........Dm7.....G
Not a moment too soon as we blue the moon
C....................Am7.....Dm7.....G
And a wolf begins to howl in tune
from 11 sec. to 16, and 1:00 to 1:06, 1:22-1:28 etc. These are all the same musical passage repeated...
e.c.s doesn't resolve at all the same way and repeats. hmm. slightly disturbing. certainly not a "I can't think of anything so i'll steal" much more like a tribute. I mentioned in another thread that this song is like an RKO astaire movie track, sort of. well, maybe more than sort of!
A Voice In The Dark
Re: A Voice In The Dark
Yeah, Chris, I reckon you're right - unconscious steal, I reckon. It's so in the style of all those happy songs from the 30s/40s, that it's just bubbled up in Elvis's song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyUPtKTOWS8
Which other songs does it remind you of? Its happy, cheery tone reminds me of 'Let's Bake a Sunshine Cake' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKv5HlI4sQc
As well as 'Busy Doing Nothing': http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAYLD06MefI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyUPtKTOWS8
Which other songs does it remind you of? Its happy, cheery tone reminds me of 'Let's Bake a Sunshine Cake' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKv5HlI4sQc
As well as 'Busy Doing Nothing': http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAYLD06MefI
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Jack of All Parades
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Re: A Voice In The Dark
Conscious or unconscious- he could well be sharing royalties with the Berlin Family trust in the future were they so inclined to litigate, not that they are in need of any more lucre. "Pennies From Heaven" always and immediately comes to the forefront for me but from a 'tone' or lyrical stance I am always thrown back to Loeser's "Sit Down Your Rocking the Boat' and Sammy Cahn's "High Hopes" when I hear this song. Would add maybe this lovely Berlin song "Isn't It a Lovely Day":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-lt16Zm ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yV-zpuGjMOw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7kzsZreG0o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIDLC8M4R28
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1VGK1bkLBI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-lt16Zm ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yV-zpuGjMOw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7kzsZreG0o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIDLC8M4R28
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1VGK1bkLBI
Last edited by Jack of All Parades on Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"....there's a merry song that starts in 'I' and ends in 'You', as many famous pop songs do....'
Re: A Voice In The Dark
I know!!! The Berlin Estate should force him to to a whole c.d. of cover songs, just like John Lennon was required to do over "here come old flat top"!!!
I would, no kidding, love to hear Elvis sing "Isn't it a Lovely Day?" for example, and to hear how he might arrange it, as with many of the other songs you mentioned Christopher.
And these lyrics are so great:
The clouds broke, they broke,
And oh what a break for me.
I can see the sun up high,
Though we're caught in a storm.
I can see where you and I could be cozy and warm.
Let the rain pitter patter,
But it really doesn't matter
If the skies are grey.
Long as I can be with you,
It's a lovely day.
This is so much like the final verse of voiceinthedark, just like the voice breaking through in the dark, the sun breaking through, and that great "Let the rain pitter patter, But it really doesn't matter If the skies are grey" run of melody and words.
I know, how about him and Diana doing a Berlin songbook between them (Diana has already cover "lovely day" has she done others)? I'd really like that. I've loved the Astaire/RKO pictures/Berlin for ages, and was around to hear the weird near-eruption of this sort of thing in the late 60s (When I'm 64, e.g., but also Honey Pie, maybe even Lennon's Goodnight and so on).
Again, this is why I love Voice in the Dark, because it really does avoid any sort of mawkishness regarding this era of music (which McCartney, e.g., often fell prey to). So, too, You Hung the Moon. Like e.c. said when he joked about josephine being a 1921 r&r song--the interviewer said something about old forms of music and e.c. said yes, but it is also happening right now.
I would, no kidding, love to hear Elvis sing "Isn't it a Lovely Day?" for example, and to hear how he might arrange it, as with many of the other songs you mentioned Christopher.
And these lyrics are so great:
The clouds broke, they broke,
And oh what a break for me.
I can see the sun up high,
Though we're caught in a storm.
I can see where you and I could be cozy and warm.
Let the rain pitter patter,
But it really doesn't matter
If the skies are grey.
Long as I can be with you,
It's a lovely day.
This is so much like the final verse of voiceinthedark, just like the voice breaking through in the dark, the sun breaking through, and that great "Let the rain pitter patter, But it really doesn't matter If the skies are grey" run of melody and words.
I know, how about him and Diana doing a Berlin songbook between them (Diana has already cover "lovely day" has she done others)? I'd really like that. I've loved the Astaire/RKO pictures/Berlin for ages, and was around to hear the weird near-eruption of this sort of thing in the late 60s (When I'm 64, e.g., but also Honey Pie, maybe even Lennon's Goodnight and so on).
Again, this is why I love Voice in the Dark, because it really does avoid any sort of mawkishness regarding this era of music (which McCartney, e.g., often fell prey to). So, too, You Hung the Moon. Like e.c. said when he joked about josephine being a 1921 r&r song--the interviewer said something about old forms of music and e.c. said yes, but it is also happening right now.
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Jack of All Parades
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Re: A Voice In The Dark
Jardine- that would be a 'righteous' penance! And one I would pay my 'pennies' to hear.
"....there's a merry song that starts in 'I' and ends in 'You', as many famous pop songs do....'
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Poor Deportee
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- Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 7:30 pm
- Location: Chocolate Town
Re: A Voice In The Dark
Hee hee! Nice find.
The internet is a bit of a nightmare for songwriters - one need only follow the relentless tracking-down of every single instance of borrowing by Bob Dylan in recent times, coupled with the inevitable accusations of plagiarism, etc.. The trouble is, how many of these borrowings are unintentional? They could happen by sheer coincidence (after all, there are only so many logical combinations of notes available; it's inevitable that more than one songwriter would hit on the same combinations over time), or by subconscious borrowing (you internalized the song and unintentionally reproduced its basic forms) as well as by deliberate borrowing (which can legitimately be done in 'tribute') and outright theft.
Personally, I don't see this as a real act of plagiarism. It's a specific passage within the context of what ultimately amounts to a rather different song. That's not the same thing as 'My Sweet Lord,' which really was a bar-for-bar carbon copy (including in its internal harmonic dynamics and the way the song builds). Otherwise put, EC takes that passage and builds a distinct entity around it. To me, that is fair game. This is how all creativity is, in fact - the notion of creation de novo is a bit of a romantic myth. Most of what we do is built on pastiche and borrowing. The really good ones among us manage to borrow in a way that seems new. But it's still constructed out of found elements.
Indeed, who is to say that Berlin didn't pinch significant elements of that songs, or others, from earlier sources? That's just how songwriting works. I think the current fad for accusing artists of plagiarism is ultimately quite unhealthy. Entire blocks of traditional and blues music would be wiped out if the performers had felt unable to freely borrow. So while I think the find is neat, I really resist the idea that EC did anything wrong or should be punished for it.
The internet is a bit of a nightmare for songwriters - one need only follow the relentless tracking-down of every single instance of borrowing by Bob Dylan in recent times, coupled with the inevitable accusations of plagiarism, etc.. The trouble is, how many of these borrowings are unintentional? They could happen by sheer coincidence (after all, there are only so many logical combinations of notes available; it's inevitable that more than one songwriter would hit on the same combinations over time), or by subconscious borrowing (you internalized the song and unintentionally reproduced its basic forms) as well as by deliberate borrowing (which can legitimately be done in 'tribute') and outright theft.
Personally, I don't see this as a real act of plagiarism. It's a specific passage within the context of what ultimately amounts to a rather different song. That's not the same thing as 'My Sweet Lord,' which really was a bar-for-bar carbon copy (including in its internal harmonic dynamics and the way the song builds). Otherwise put, EC takes that passage and builds a distinct entity around it. To me, that is fair game. This is how all creativity is, in fact - the notion of creation de novo is a bit of a romantic myth. Most of what we do is built on pastiche and borrowing. The really good ones among us manage to borrow in a way that seems new. But it's still constructed out of found elements.
Indeed, who is to say that Berlin didn't pinch significant elements of that songs, or others, from earlier sources? That's just how songwriting works. I think the current fad for accusing artists of plagiarism is ultimately quite unhealthy. Entire blocks of traditional and blues music would be wiped out if the performers had felt unable to freely borrow. So while I think the find is neat, I really resist the idea that EC did anything wrong or should be punished for it.
Last edited by Poor Deportee on Fri Dec 31, 2010 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
When man has destroyed what he thinks he owns
I hope no living thing cries over his bones
I hope no living thing cries over his bones
Re: A Voice In The Dark
me too. i really don't think he did anything wrong or anything different that exactly what keeps music alive as a living tradition. the lennon thing was just a joke.
HOWEVER, i really would love to hear him sing some of these older songs. like he covered that jimmie rodgers song on some radio show that was posted. i think he has got the voice and composure, now, to sing "Isn't it a lovely day" in such a way that it is believable and fun and romantic and not at all a parody of another time. this is just another instance of something i've mentioned offhandedly before, that e.c. seems to have broken through into something quite extraordinary.
I think this is why I might be rating NR so very high, not because of the quality of the songs/recordings etc., but i find this time of e.c.s career as rich and as interesting as any he has ever had, with the performances, the recordings, the musicians, the experiments, the histories (jimmie rodgers, pennies from heaven intro, jimmie, josephine, even the cover art and the 78s etc.--and also calling up and reinterpreting old songs of his own into this rich vein, with even some dylanbloodonthetracks guitar for everyday i write the book--posted a while ago as a radio broadcast: listen to the guitar figure at the beginning) and so on as rich as his surroundings have ever been. i sort of bring all of that back to NR when i read posts about how good/bad it is.
As an e.c. "era," i think this is one of the very best times.
HOWEVER, i really would love to hear him sing some of these older songs. like he covered that jimmie rodgers song on some radio show that was posted. i think he has got the voice and composure, now, to sing "Isn't it a lovely day" in such a way that it is believable and fun and romantic and not at all a parody of another time. this is just another instance of something i've mentioned offhandedly before, that e.c. seems to have broken through into something quite extraordinary.
I think this is why I might be rating NR so very high, not because of the quality of the songs/recordings etc., but i find this time of e.c.s career as rich and as interesting as any he has ever had, with the performances, the recordings, the musicians, the experiments, the histories (jimmie rodgers, pennies from heaven intro, jimmie, josephine, even the cover art and the 78s etc.--and also calling up and reinterpreting old songs of his own into this rich vein, with even some dylanbloodonthetracks guitar for everyday i write the book--posted a while ago as a radio broadcast: listen to the guitar figure at the beginning) and so on as rich as his surroundings have ever been. i sort of bring all of that back to NR when i read posts about how good/bad it is.
As an e.c. "era," i think this is one of the very best times.
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Jeremy Dylan
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Re: A Voice In The Dark
I think the similarities in melody are simply due to EC writing in an Irving Berlin style and thus there is a similar passage. I thought it sounded similar to PENNIES FROM HEAVEN initially, but again no plagiarism.
Re: A Voice In The Dark
My mother's done it again. I was playing 'The Crooked Line', and she started singing 'What a Friend We Have In Jesus' over the chorus - and she has a point!