When did Elvis jump the shark?

martinfoyle · Post by **martinfoyle** » Mon May 30, 2005 9:45 am

Just discovered this hilarious thread about Elvis.

http://ilx.wh3rd.net/thread.php?msgid=5396835

selfmademug · Post by **selfmademug** » Mon May 30, 2005 11:08 am

Oy. That's the sort of thing that makes me glad I'm 43 not 23. It's such a dick-measuring contest-- I'm more pure cool than you because I think he sold out even before you think he did. You're a conformist poseur for even liking that stuff, etc. Good lord, who can be bothered? Life's too short, just enjoy the music you do.

lawngnome · Post by **lawngnome** » Mon May 30, 2005 5:14 pm

My generation makes me weep occasionally. They watch way too much vh1. And its been 3 years since Italian, but doesn't Il Songo mean 'the dream,' not 'the shark?'

bobster · Post by **bobster** » Tue May 31, 2005 3:19 am

I think all the experts agree that Shakespeare pretty much jumped the shark after "The Tempest"; Beethoven did the same after the 9th Symphony; Einstein never topped the theory of relativity (and crashed and burned with the unified field debacle); Jesus was never really was able to recapture the magic after the Sermon on the Mount, and Moses was clearing phoning it in on those last few commandments.

I also believe that the phrase "Jumped the Shark" jumped the shark the moment it was first mentioned on NPR.

RinghioStarr · Post by **RinghioStarr** » Tue May 31, 2005 4:32 am

lawngnome wrote:My generation makes me weep occasionally. They watch way too much vh1. And its been 3 years since Italian, but doesn't Il Songo mean 'the dream,' not 'the shark?'

In fact.

"il Sogno" means "the dream"

"the shark" would be "lo squalo".

lawngnome · Post by **lawngnome** » Tue May 31, 2005 9:07 am

I thought so.

migdd · Post by **migdd** » Tue May 31, 2005 10:50 am

Elvis never "jumped the shark" period!!

His two most "commercial" albums (with the exception of Punch The Clock) were TYM and Armed Forces. After that, it was all downhill, commercially.

"Selling out" works for some artists who do their best work under the constraints of trying to write to an audience; but for others, like EC, trying to write a hit for it's own sake just doesn't work.

lostdog · Post by **lostdog** » Tue May 31, 2005 11:28 am

migdd wrote:His two most "commercial" albums (with the exception of Punch The Clock) were TYM and Armed Forces. After that, it was all downhill, commercially.

Not quite. I think Spike has been his all time biggest seller after MAIT.

Mr. Average · Post by **Mr. Average** » Tue May 31, 2005 11:30 am

I concur that "Armed Forces" was his most commercial effort, but I would follow it with "Trust", with the Tillbrook collaboration, as the second attempt to achieve commercial success. And the third and final attempt was PTC.

I don't see TYM as a commercial effort. And I agree with you, that to label Elvis as a comemrcial sell-out is almost comical. But the same has been said for many of my favorite artists, among them David Byrne and Pat Metheny. Hell, it can even be argues that Miles Davis was selling out in his later years, covering Cindi Lauper songs and his final release prior to his death was a sad dance/pop recording that, for the life of me, I cannot imagine that he approved of.

A question for another thread, but I find it interesting that Peter Gabriel is often labeled as a commercial sell-out, yet I don't see that at all. Not at all. The work he has done to bring 'world-music' to the foreground...to the ears of many, is a proud achievement. And there is little commercial value in the Last Temptation of Christ soundtrack (brilliant work, btw).

Will kane · Post by **Will kane** » Tue May 31, 2005 2:14 pm

His two most "commercial" albums (with the exception of Punch The Clock) were TYM and Armed Forces. After that, it was all downhill, commercially.

Not quite. I think Spike has been his all time biggest seller after MAIT.

Could be wrong, but I think WIWC did even better than Spike.

sweetest punch · Post by **sweetest punch** » Tue May 31, 2005 2:53 pm

Will kane wrote:

His two most "commercial" albums (with the exception of Punch The Clock) were TYM and Armed Forces. After that, it was all downhill, commercially.

Not quite. I think Spike has been his all time biggest seller after MAIT.
Could be wrong, but I think WIWC did even better than Spike.

This is an extract from a Billboard article:

http://www.elviscostello.info/articles/ ... 0508a.html

The tour will be Costello's third North American trip since the April 2002 release of "When I Was Cruel" (Island/Def Jam). The acclaimed set debuted at No. 20 on The Billboard 200 and reached No. 3 on the Top Internet Albums Sales chart. The album has sold 194,000 copies in the U.S., according to Nielsen SoundScan.

Spike went gold in the USA (more than 500.000 copies sold).

migdd · Post by **migdd** » Tue May 31, 2005 4:14 pm

Okay, I stand corrected!

Obviously, Elvis has had many commercial peaks and valleys over the years. What I meant to imply with my rather offhand and heavy-handed comments was that I don't see a point in EC's career where he said "f**k it. . .I'm going to go for the cash and only release records that will make me lots of money." If anything, I see the opposite trend as time has passed - to the point where his attitude these days seems to be "I'm going to make whatever record interests me at the moment because if I don't like it, chances are no one else will either."

Again, just an opinionated observation, as I've obviously got the facts all wrong on this one!!!

miss buenos aires · Post by **miss buenos aires** » Tue May 31, 2005 9:22 pm

It just seems like a lot of these people bought a lot of "crap" albums from this guy after they made up their minds about how much he sucked. I usually don't buy music I don't think I'm going to like, but that's just me, perhaps...

Declanation · Post by **Declanation** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:02 am

You'd be surprised on how past greatness can give people hope... I still go see Woody Allen films, even though I know I'll be disappointed, based on the hope that maybe he has ONE more great film in him left...

Same argument could be made about Elvis... I personally don't feel this way, I think he's done some great work in the past few years and I especially love his last album... I think the lyrics to Needle Time are among his best ever.. and that's saying a lot...

Mr. Average · Post by **Mr. Average** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:54 am

Declanation:

I like your comparison and contrast to Woody Allen films. It is an interesting point. If the early material was somehow excised from memory, the recent movie "Melinda and Melinda" might have fared better in my personal rankings and other movie rating schemes.

He is still doing great work, but you inevitably find a need to compare it to others in the Allen catalog. I like the way that he takes actors that have yet to really break through and he squeezes great performances out of them. John Cusack as an example. I think he stretched a little when he thought he could bring Will Farrell up to his level...don't think Will has that kind of range. But at least he is creating an avenue for these actors, and the scrips are pretty damn good, even if they start to resemble earlier work.

I think Elvis has done a 'better' job of reinventing himself NOT by the market pressures to sell, but by his allegiance and respect for multiple musical genre's. He is fresh. Woody is growing a bit stale, but I still pay a premium to see what he will do next.

Will kane · Post by **Will kane** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:27 pm

The analogy I would use is Alfred Hitchcock.

He made about 60 movies in his career, about 5 of which are bona fide classics and about 15 are merely fantastic, which leaves about 40 movies which range from curios to duds (my figures are less than exacting but you get my point). And you know what? Nobody remembers the duds.

Hitchcock is widely regarded as one of the greatest movie directors ever, yet by these people's standards he would be a has been who jumped the shark around the time of 'Jamaica Inn'.

Some of Elvis' early records are great, some of them not so great, same as his later career. Same for practically every artist with any longevity.

whar · Post by **whar** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:11 am

Haha, I don't know what's worse... that discussion or the fact that it sparked a similar discussion here.

Elvis is Elvis. You could make a case that he "jumped the shark" when he grew the beard- but why would you? Lets just thank God that Brutal Youth brought us back to Earth.

whar · Post by **whar** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:13 am

"I Want You" is another Spike gem. I think it's his last good album really.

Hahahaha, okay, I can no longer defend them.

Extreme Honey · Post by **Extreme Honey** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 5:05 pm

I don't beleive elvis jumped the shark either. Commercially, perhaps, but thank god. personally my favourite album is Mighty like a rose, and it sold poorly. Costello's best works sold poorly. King of America, Painted From Memory, Goodbye Cruel World, see where I am going? The point is, the public is stupid. Really stupid. Elvis could have released a bucket of shit after Armed Forces and made millions, but he didn't. Why? Because Elvis was never, and was never meant to be a star. He was meant to follow his heart and do the music that interested him, selfish? Perhaps. Better than This Year's Model? Definitively. As far as I know, there are logical reasons to every hit album elvis made. This Year's model was a perfect album for the punk revolution currently in process, Armed Forces had Oliver's Army (and was released durin his commercial peak) , Punch the Clock had Everyday I write the book and Pills and Soap (and was sort of an early 80's pop album) and lastly, Spike featured Veronica, which was produced with Paul Mcartney. Aside from Armed Forces and This Year's model, the albums were unintentional hits. I don't think elvis really cared about the sales when he was face to face with his childhood hero Paul, would you? I sure wouldn't.

whar · Post by **whar** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 3:16 pm

Well, I'd say he cared about sales when he got Clive & Allan and recorded Everyday I Write the Book.

selfmademug · Post by **selfmademug** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 3:54 pm

whar wrote:Well, I'd say he cared about sales when he got Clive & Allan and recorded Everyday I Write the Book.

It was the early-mid '80s. You kinda had to be there.

Not everyone will agree with me but I'll never give up my copy of PTC, NEVER! I love it.

lawngnome · Post by **lawngnome** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:45 pm

That's assuming you could find some to give it to...

whar · Post by **whar** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 5:57 pm

I love PTC, it's one of my favorite albums ever.
That doesn't change the fact that he's trying to make a hit.

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