Frank Zappa -What should I buy now...

DrJ · Post by **DrJ** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 6:59 pm

I have decided to get even more serious about music by getting into some new stuff for the new year. I want to get into Zappa. I have the Strictly Commercial Best Of and Weasels Ripped My Flesh. Based on the compilation I was going to start with Joe's Garage and Cheap Thrills, but none of the seven shops I was in today I had either. Unfortunately they were all bookshops. [joke]

Anyone here like Zappa? Any advice?

Anyone here dislike Zappa? Think he was an overrated noodler?

I feel that Zappa is a bit of work, but I've done a bit already and I think it's worth it. There's so much going on in some of the music, but it repays listens and it's great when it clicks. Plus I feel if I get into more of his stuff I'll get a better overview of joining the dots and references, dental floss, muffins, etc.

DrJ

Post by **BlueChair** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 7:02 pm

This sounds like a job for a rope leash, our resident Frank Zappa expert.

I own nothing, so unfortunately I can't help you out

Boy With A Problem · Post by **Boy With A Problem** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 7:16 pm

Dr. J - those are the the two I have as well. The one that I would buy next might be "Shut Up And Play Guitar" - which a friend was playing one time and I said - "what's this?" - but never followed up. The AMG site usually helps me out with decisions like these

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=am ... m8b5z4tsqe

Tim(e) · Post by **Tim(e)** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 8:14 pm

Definitely get Hot Rats and Zoot Allures - both of which feature some fine instrumentals.

Of his early material (Mothers of Invention) Lumpy Gravy, Uncle Meat, and We're Only In It For the Money are all excellent.

HungupStrungup · Post by **HungupStrungup** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 9:35 pm

I don't have much Zappa, but I think Tim(e)'s onto something with those recommendations. One I've always been partial to is Waka/Jawaka, which is a transitional "fusion jazz" album from 1972, between the styles of Hot Rats and Zoot Allures.

Mr. Average · Post by **Mr. Average** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 9:42 pm

The albums "Apostrophy" and "Overnight Sensation" are striking examples of his range. They are my favorites, and his catalog will take you farther to the edge than most artists.

I recommened Apostrophy and Overnight Sensation. A third favorite is less accessible but probably more sheer genius, and that is the live/studio recording called "Bongo Fury" where he appears in Austin TX with Captain Beefheart with some studio 'refinement'. There is an incredible energy in that recording, some vintage Zappa poetry, and unbelieveable guitar solo on "Advanced Romance".

A rope leash · Post by **A rope leash** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 12:43 am

Burnt Weeny Sandwhich is a must.

There's also a disc called Strictly Genteel, if you can get it. It's a collection of his classical compositions.

I enjoy Lather quite a bit. It's a 12-sided album that wasn't picked up by Warner Brothers back in the '70's. I think it was released after he died. Some of the live stuff can be pretty grating, but the studio cuts are fantastic.

If you really want to understand where Zappa came from, I'd suggest Absolutely Free, or possibly Freak Out. If you want to hear some real crazy shit, try Were Only In It For The Money, or Jazz from Hell.

Some of my other favorites not yet mentioned here are Just Another Band from L.A., The Grand Wazoo, One Size Fits All, and You Are What You Is. It's really a massive catalogue.

But, I must say, I didn't take DrJ for a Zappa-type. I hope the good doctor is not easily offended, for the noble Zappa student must wade though tons of low-brow humour, crude commentary, and insensitive candor to get to the truth and beauty found at the center of his challenging work.

Have fun, DrJ!

Hint: Joe's Garage would probably not be appropriate for a first date...

HungupStrungup · Post by **HungupStrungup** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 1:28 am

A rope leash wrote:Joe's Garage would probably not be appropriate for a first date...

Then how does Joe's Garage ever get a second date?

DrJ · Post by **DrJ** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 9:12 am

Thank you all, I moght pick something up today, or go on an internet splurge.

ARL, it's quite sweet that you think I might be horrified by the more scatalogical side of Zappa. Contrary to popular opinion, I don't go round with glasses on the tip of my nose, tutting at things. I think it's a brilliant rouse of his, lure you in with the laugh out loud Bobby Brown Goes Down, then hang around for the complex stuff. I wasn't offened by BBGD, by the way.

DrJ

A rope leash · Post by **A rope leash** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 10:21 am

I think it is a ruse of sorts, Dr. There's a song on Freak Out called How could I Be Such a Fool?. Frank said it was his first, and last, "serious" pop love song.

When you look at it from the start, Frank and The Mothers were really an anti-rock group. The pressure to sell records evolved into into a sort of pseudo battle with the record companies, whereupon some pretty oddball stuff was offered and reluctantly released, and subsequently Frank found a niche in the same sort of way Elvis has. I think that shock value began to drive some of his sales, which eventually evolved into a long string of snappy tunes with lewd or otherwise offensive lyrical content.

But, that is what sold. If Frank had just relied on his composing talents for orchestra, he wouldn't have sold shit.

But for me, it's the music, not the derision. There are sounds there that you will probably never hear again from anyone.

Not that his humour isn't funny. It's both cutting and lasivious. Like that tacky little pamphlet in your daddy's bottom drawer...

Mr. Average · Post by **Mr. Average** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 10:26 am

I understand ARL's cautions, in general. If one begins their collection lead off with "Freak Out", versus "Overnight Sensation" they are likely to quickly move to Danny Elfman Soundtracks just to regain some semblance of structure to their lives. The "Suzy Creamcheese" character in "Freak Out" is much more difficult to take than the image of "raisin' up a crop of Dental Floss" imagery in "Overnight Sensation".

I worked for two years in a vinyl record store, and I learned that unless the listener (even the advanced listener) was weaned on something more accessible (se my posts above, and add "Zoot Allures"), they never came back for more. If they DID, it was because they were either, or both:

1. A visionary guitar player, and/or;
2. Insane.

ARL, do you play guitar??

A rope leash · Post by **A rope leash** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 10:43 am

No, I'm the other thing...!

Tim(e) · Post by **Tim(e)** » Sun Jan 18, 2004 6:05 pm

I forgot to mention these before, but associated albums which I would consider as "must own" are:

(from the early catalogue of the Mothers of Invention) Zappa's take on doo wop called "Cruising with Ruben and the Jets".

and

King Kong: Jean Luc Ponty Plays the Music of Frank Zappa.

Mr. Average · Post by **Mr. Average** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 2:06 pm

How many Zappa protege's' have roots as "Mothers of Invention"...

1. Bruce Fowler
2. Jean Luc Ponty
3. Mark Volman
4. Aynsely Dunbar
5. George Duke
6. Terry Bozzio
7. Lowell George

Others?

HungupStrungup · Post by **HungupStrungup** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 3:26 pm

I'm not quite sure I understand the question, but it never hurts to mention Adrian Belew's name anyway. I think his Zappa apprenticeship was post-Mothers, but it preceded his stints with Bowie, Talking Heads, Laurie Anderson and King Crimson.

A rope leash · Post by **A rope leash** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 5:13 pm

I think that, after a while, anyone who ever played with Frank was considered "a Mother", whether or not they actually played in an "official" Mothers of Invention band.

A couple of minor names not already mentioned, one of which is Steve Vai, but I can't tell you where he plays. Another is Johnny "Guitar" Watson, who sings flamb vocals for a couple of songs on One Size Fits All.

Don't forget Moon Unit, or The Sons of Zappa.

DrJ · Post by **DrJ** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 8:52 pm

Since this thread is still going I thought I'd let y'all know that I got "We're Only In It For The Money" at the weekend. I likes it. It has Mother People on it which I recall as the song which played when Frank Zappa appeared on The Monkees (smashing up a car with Mike Nesmith). This was impressive to me when I was 13.

Onto the next record...

Also bought Franz Ferdinand. Verrrrry good.

DrJ

A rope leash · Post by **A rope leash** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 9:19 pm

Eric Clapton is on that record somewhere...I believe it's mentioned in the liner notes.

You'll be absolutely free / only if you want to be...

Did you get the CD that is combined with Lumpy Gravy?

bambooneedle · Post by **bambooneedle** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 4:56 am

Zappa fact: he never ever got high on any recreational drug.

DrJ · Post by **DrJ** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 8:17 am

Yes I was aware of this. We've so much in common! Even though I've only just bought my third Zappa record I read his autobiography some time around 1992, I've seen 200 Motels and I found a 1993 Zappa documentary which I taped on video recently. So I knew a lot about the guy but not about the music.

DrJ

Mr. Average · Post by **Mr. Average** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 10:05 am

If Frank suspected a participant in a recording session to be high, he sent 'em home. Intolerant to anything that would compete with a clean expression of his music.

An American Composer

A rope leash · Post by **A rope leash** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 10:13 am

While he was opposed to getting high himself, he also oppossed locking people up for getting high.

No, Frank didn't use drugs, but a lot of people assumed that he did. Why, just look at him, and listen to that crazy music!

It just goes to prove that you can't judge the guilty by looking at them. Rush Limbaugh probably looks more like the typical American drug abuser than Frank did.

Mr. Average · Post by **Mr. Average** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 11:02 am

Brilliant observation, ARL. And it goes further.

I worked in a record store (vinyl and 8 Track tapes in the olden days) during 2.5 years of my undergraduate experience. I was robbed four times at gunpoint (most people get the hint after the second hold-up, but I'm a little slow).

There was an exact inverse relationship between the stereotypical appearance of the 'bad guy- robbery-type thug" look and the appearance of the guys banging the muzzle of a pistol against the temporal region of my skull. The thieves that robbed me (picked 3 of 4 of 'em out of a line-up, proving that crime pays exactly 25% of the time, in my experience). They were "white collar" types....college students, and gainfully employed who needed the money for drugs.

When the prototypical bad guy came in the front door of the little "indie" shop I worked in (one room - the size of an average sized Starbucks) I relaxed (after the 3 hold-up). I had my best interractions and communication exchanges with these guys. The only correlation between 'drugged-out looking dudes' was with kids, and they didn't steal money with a gun, they ripped-off records using the always fun "smash and grab" technique.

It was in that job that I learned to run really fast.

Frank Zappa - A real American Composer. I would like to hear Chick Corea, Keith Jarrett, or Herbie Hancock try to play some of his classical pieces, adapted to piano and jazz ensemble. I think it will be awhile because the challenge is so daunting. FZ did not do anything the easy way. I wish he was alive today, because I think he would have scored some incredible soundtracks for recent films.

A rope leash · Post by **A rope leash** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 1:31 pm

I've never had a gun pointed at me. That must be an awful experience.

That's another job that should pay a heck of a lot more.

Copenhagen Fan · Post by **Copenhagen Fan** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 3:21 am

I have the Apostrophe/Overnight Sensation double CD....that is great....I also reccomend LIVE IN NEW YORK..Gotta have Titties and Beer....!

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Frank Zappa -What should I buy now...

Frank Zappa -What should I buy now...

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