This is a Rope-like thread.
Did the Senate represent its constituents well?
Right or Wrong? Should it be legal or illegal?
Will it matter what the Supreme Court thinks anyway? Will Bush pull an Andrew Jackson?
Dilation & Extraction
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LessThanZero
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Dilation & Extraction
Loving this board since before When I Was Cruel.
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sulkygirl
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Politicians have no right to tell me what I can/cannot do regarding my own reproductivity.
'Nuff said.
'Nuff said.
Last edited by sulkygirl on Tue Oct 21, 2003 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Love can be stranger than fiction..."
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LessThanZero
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noiseradio
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LessThanZero
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Noise is amazing
Sulky, I have to say, if I was a woman, I wouldn't be able to go through with this procedure.
From what I've read, they take the whole baby's body out except for the head, then they drill a hole in the skull, and suck out it's brains.
That just sounds so brutal and wrong, that it should be stopped.
I've also read that less than 1% of all abortions are D&Es!
I understand why people say that our government shouldn't pass laws governing each individuals "reproductivity".
But this just seems so murderous, I can't believe it's taken until 2003 to ban.
In high school they showed us a video of a 2nd term abortion where a vaccuum came in and the fetus tried to get away, but it sucked it apart. I was eating Peanut Butter and Jelly.
so to recap, I don't agree with D&E's, abortion videos during lunch, or people who bomb abortion clinics.
Ok, that last one was new, but true. Let's get the discussion rolling! Rope?
From what I've read, they take the whole baby's body out except for the head, then they drill a hole in the skull, and suck out it's brains.
That just sounds so brutal and wrong, that it should be stopped.
I've also read that less than 1% of all abortions are D&Es!
I understand why people say that our government shouldn't pass laws governing each individuals "reproductivity".
But this just seems so murderous, I can't believe it's taken until 2003 to ban.
In high school they showed us a video of a 2nd term abortion where a vaccuum came in and the fetus tried to get away, but it sucked it apart. I was eating Peanut Butter and Jelly.
so to recap, I don't agree with D&E's, abortion videos during lunch, or people who bomb abortion clinics.
Ok, that last one was new, but true. Let's get the discussion rolling! Rope?
Loving this board since before When I Was Cruel.
First of all, kudos for the Dilation and Extraction title. Love it.
As for my vote, yes - it should remain legal.
Tidbit from http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/10/ ... index.html says it all:
"The president, said Sen. Frank Lautenberg, D-New Jersey "will become the first United States president to criminalize a safe medical procedure." Doctors who violate the ban would be subject to prison terms of up to two years. "
Yeah, let's lock up doctors for trying to save their patient's lives. That's a good idea. I just hope that Roe v Wade decision sticks.
As for my vote, yes - it should remain legal.
Tidbit from http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/10/ ... index.html says it all:
"The president, said Sen. Frank Lautenberg, D-New Jersey "will become the first United States president to criminalize a safe medical procedure." Doctors who violate the ban would be subject to prison terms of up to two years. "
Yeah, let's lock up doctors for trying to save their patient's lives. That's a good idea. I just hope that Roe v Wade decision sticks.
Just noticed your post LTZ....missed it before posting mine. Yes, Abortions are messy and gross, and no one really likes them. And *maybe* I would be ok with this if there was an exception for doctor recommendation. Partial birth abortion is exceptionally gross, and as you said, rarely done. But there are times that doctors recommend it for the health of the woman. So why make something doctor recommended illegal?
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A rope leash
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Abort-shun
I always avoid this arguement because I can see so many sides. Moral dilemmas like abortion are the toughest to navigate, and filled with obvious hypocrisies.
The first problem I have with abortion is that I cannot empathize with a woman. For this reason, I think the moral decisions should be made by the woman. But, as we can see, the male-led legislature is constantly trying to affect law on this issue, and as we can imagine the effect that their wives have on thier voting, I think we can assume that not all women agree on the morality.
I would sure hate to be the woman that is going to die so that her baby can live.
I'd hate to be the innocent man being put to death for a crime I didn't commit.
I'd hate to be young soldier that gets swept up to war, and becomes a killer.
Abortion might be ugly and morally questionable, but like war and the death penalty, societies from time to time will find that the benefits outweigh the sins.
If you'd like to know what a dog thinks about it, I'm pretty sure they would vote for random sterilization of the human race.
It's only fair.
The first problem I have with abortion is that I cannot empathize with a woman. For this reason, I think the moral decisions should be made by the woman. But, as we can see, the male-led legislature is constantly trying to affect law on this issue, and as we can imagine the effect that their wives have on thier voting, I think we can assume that not all women agree on the morality.
I would sure hate to be the woman that is going to die so that her baby can live.
I'd hate to be the innocent man being put to death for a crime I didn't commit.
I'd hate to be young soldier that gets swept up to war, and becomes a killer.
Abortion might be ugly and morally questionable, but like war and the death penalty, societies from time to time will find that the benefits outweigh the sins.
If you'd like to know what a dog thinks about it, I'm pretty sure they would vote for random sterilization of the human race.
It's only fair.
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spooky girlfriend
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This one is so tough for me. I have many moral and religious convictions on this matter, but I am torn for many reasons.
I see women who had children who shouldn't have. Women who can't afford them and become dependant upon society to take responsibility for their lack of it. I see women who beat and smack their children around because they gave birth to them when they really didn't want them. I see women with even more than one child in these situations, which magnifies the problem. If they didn't want one, they probably didn't want the other two or three or however many.
Children who grow up with these women will not be healthy, happy adults. They can be depressed, suicidal, or just repressed and miserable on a daily basis. Neither is fair.
I've never thought a woman should die to save the life of an unborn child. That woman already has a life. Why give birth to a baby who will no longer have the mother who conceived it? That woman may have a relationship filled with love with a partner, and that all shouldn't be willingly disposed of in order to bring a baby into the world.
As long as there are pregnant women, there will be women looking for an abortion. They will find some way to make it happen. If it is illegal, they will still go through with it somehow. It is worse to make the situation unsanitary and unprofessional. That creates another whole set of problems.
And bombing abortion centers. If the whole fight is about the value of life, why kill people to make it happen?
So, which is worse? Abortion, or bringing a child into the world where it won't be loved or wanted? Women having legal abortions or hurting themselves and others by having a hack job in a hidden building somewhere? A mother allowing herself to die so a baby can be born, or the mother and her partner trying again and conquering the loss with love and hope for another try at creating a life?
I do hate the specifics on abortion procedures, but there will still be consequences even if it became illegal.
I remain torn.
I see women who had children who shouldn't have. Women who can't afford them and become dependant upon society to take responsibility for their lack of it. I see women who beat and smack their children around because they gave birth to them when they really didn't want them. I see women with even more than one child in these situations, which magnifies the problem. If they didn't want one, they probably didn't want the other two or three or however many.
Children who grow up with these women will not be healthy, happy adults. They can be depressed, suicidal, or just repressed and miserable on a daily basis. Neither is fair.
I've never thought a woman should die to save the life of an unborn child. That woman already has a life. Why give birth to a baby who will no longer have the mother who conceived it? That woman may have a relationship filled with love with a partner, and that all shouldn't be willingly disposed of in order to bring a baby into the world.
As long as there are pregnant women, there will be women looking for an abortion. They will find some way to make it happen. If it is illegal, they will still go through with it somehow. It is worse to make the situation unsanitary and unprofessional. That creates another whole set of problems.
And bombing abortion centers. If the whole fight is about the value of life, why kill people to make it happen?
So, which is worse? Abortion, or bringing a child into the world where it won't be loved or wanted? Women having legal abortions or hurting themselves and others by having a hack job in a hidden building somewhere? A mother allowing herself to die so a baby can be born, or the mother and her partner trying again and conquering the loss with love and hope for another try at creating a life?
I do hate the specifics on abortion procedures, but there will still be consequences even if it became illegal.
I remain torn.
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miss buenos aires
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LessThanZero
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spooky girlfriend
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And, yet, it's one of the few things I've ever done in life that were fairly easy for me. I was really good at childbirth - no pain medicine either time and each delivery was very short - less than two hours for the first child and 32 minutes for the second.
The other two children I inherited when they were 4 and 7, so I don't have any painful birth stories for them. But, in keeping with the subject matter of this thread, they are two children whose mother left them at the ages of 3 and 5-1/2. Lucky for them they still had their dad, and have now landed in a blended family where they are loved by me equally with my own children. It's sad when people have children and don't want them.
Sometimes it's just tough to be a woman.
The other two children I inherited when they were 4 and 7, so I don't have any painful birth stories for them. But, in keeping with the subject matter of this thread, they are two children whose mother left them at the ages of 3 and 5-1/2. Lucky for them they still had their dad, and have now landed in a blended family where they are loved by me equally with my own children. It's sad when people have children and don't want them.
Sometimes it's just tough to be a woman.
It's Always tough to be a woman. And yet the men don't seem to last as long...so much for the "weaker sex" idea...
There are so many sides to these issues. Part of the problem is that people are not having the same conversation. People tend to only see the value of one life, either the mother or the baby, and no one is looking for a way to salvage all of the lives.
As a woman who has had an unplanned pregnancy, I can attest to the shock, anxiety and stress it brought to my life. And once you are pregnant, you can't rewind and do-over. Nothing will ever change the fact that you are/were pregnant. (Kinda like trying to get your virginity back!)
As for the men on the site who say, "glad I'm not a woman...it's not really up to me...blah blah blah." STEP UP TO THE PLATE AND BE A MAN.
There are so many sides to these issues. Part of the problem is that people are not having the same conversation. People tend to only see the value of one life, either the mother or the baby, and no one is looking for a way to salvage all of the lives.
As a woman who has had an unplanned pregnancy, I can attest to the shock, anxiety and stress it brought to my life. And once you are pregnant, you can't rewind and do-over. Nothing will ever change the fact that you are/were pregnant. (Kinda like trying to get your virginity back!)
As for the men on the site who say, "glad I'm not a woman...it's not really up to me...blah blah blah." STEP UP TO THE PLATE AND BE A MAN.
Don't bury me 'cause I'm not dead yet.
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Misha
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Ok, (insert big Spooky G post above here)
I am in full support of Choice.
I don't think I could personally do it, but I don't want people telling me what to do with my body, so I'm not going to tell others what to do with theirs.
How many pro-lifers eat eggs?
Firmly, adamantly pro-choice.
It would be one step closer to a nightmare if they make this illegal. If they don't like D & E, they shouldn't get one.
I find it interesting that the Pro Life movement is so concerned with the life of a human that isn't even out amongst us, and the ones out amongst us are disposable if we don't like them or what they do. Can't kill em until they are at least 14, that is what is known as a very late term abortion, or the death penalty.
I am in full support of Choice.
I don't think I could personally do it, but I don't want people telling me what to do with my body, so I'm not going to tell others what to do with theirs.
How many pro-lifers eat eggs?
Firmly, adamantly pro-choice.
It would be one step closer to a nightmare if they make this illegal. If they don't like D & E, they shouldn't get one.
I find it interesting that the Pro Life movement is so concerned with the life of a human that isn't even out amongst us, and the ones out amongst us are disposable if we don't like them or what they do. Can't kill em until they are at least 14, that is what is known as a very late term abortion, or the death penalty.
Where are the strong?
Who are the trusted?
Who are the trusted?
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double dutchess
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First of all, what the hell kind of high school did you go to, LTZ? Kids should most certainly not have to watch such procedures!
And I prefer to call it a "late-term abortion". "Partial-birth abortion" is something right-wingers like to call it to nauseate people.
In some states, it's already illegal. But to ban it on a federal level is a huge mistake. I find it depressing that the fact that the mother's life may be in danger if she carries the pregnancy to term seems to mean nothing to these people. It is as if they're "pro-life" on a very superficial level only. The entire abortion debate bothers me. It's really no one's business. So, in essence, I guess I've just agreed with almost everyone else in a round-about way.
And I prefer to call it a "late-term abortion". "Partial-birth abortion" is something right-wingers like to call it to nauseate people.
In some states, it's already illegal. But to ban it on a federal level is a huge mistake. I find it depressing that the fact that the mother's life may be in danger if she carries the pregnancy to term seems to mean nothing to these people. It is as if they're "pro-life" on a very superficial level only. The entire abortion debate bothers me. It's really no one's business. So, in essence, I guess I've just agreed with almost everyone else in a round-about way.
I wasn't born the sharpest thorn
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LessThanZero
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Mishy, I'm totally pro life. Even if you're on death row. Ever since the whole "throw the first stone" shpiel, I don't feel like anyone should have a constitutional right to kill anybody.
DD, I went to a Christian school, where my Bible class happened to fall right before lunch time when I was a freshman. My teacher was TERRIBLE too! He was all freaked out that by the time he was 60, euthenasia would be out of control, and the govt. would kill everyone when they turned 60 or 65 or something. This guy seemed like a first-class hypocrite to me though. He wouldn't let me run for president of student council because of a fiery speech I gave at the debate.
what a jerk.
DD, I went to a Christian school, where my Bible class happened to fall right before lunch time when I was a freshman. My teacher was TERRIBLE too! He was all freaked out that by the time he was 60, euthenasia would be out of control, and the govt. would kill everyone when they turned 60 or 65 or something. This guy seemed like a first-class hypocrite to me though. He wouldn't let me run for president of student council because of a fiery speech I gave at the debate.
what a jerk.
Loving this board since before When I Was Cruel.