![Image](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/charleshardin/Image0053.jpg?t=1274269646)
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 76401.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2010/ma ... l-concerts
I am not at all surprised at your comment "Mr. Moderator". You and your anti semitic "politically sensitive" has-been performer can go suck yourselves-Israel gained by not having this garbage in the countrymigdd wrote:martybaram wrote:WHAT AN OUTRAGE!!! WHY WOULD A HASBEEN SINGER-WHO REALLY NOBODY WANTS TO SEE-CANCEL A SHOW BECAUSE OF "POLITICAL REASONS"?
ELVIS...YOU ARE A HYPOCRITE...STAY AT HOME YOU LOSER...YOU ARE A DISGRACE TO ALL AND ISRAEL HAS GAINED BY NOT HAVING A TWIT LIKE YOU HERE
Go away, dufus.
MODERATOR!!!!!!!!
Elvis should have expected the outrage - every artist who comes here experience it. Before Leonard Cohen came here, there was an small demonstration against the show near the venue he played in Berlin. LC ignored it, played here, gave an amazing show and even quoted the bible (in hebrew!). Paul McCartney had threats on his life (!!!), but he still came, gave a non-political but really fun concert and talked a lot of hebrew. Costello should have ignored it just like everyone else did.MOJO wrote:It looks like everyone is turning this into a political issue. If I were in EC's shoes, I would have canceled, too, for the mere fact that, well, people simply get on my nerves. I'm not being insensitive to the people of Palestine, I'm just saying that all this build up and pressure to not perform in Israel would have gotten on my last nerve and I would have said, "You know what.. **CK it! I could use a few extra days of a vacation with my family." Whatever, I guess I can chalk up this post to PMS. Now I have a hankering for hummus... gotta go.
Ignore him, I find it rather sad that an Israeli would actually join the message board for that. Go watch Kobi Perez instead. טוב לראות שאתה עוזר לדימוי הישראלי בחו"לmartybaram wrote:WHAT AN OUTRAGE!!! WHY WOULD A HASBEEN SINGER-WHO REALLY NOBODY WANTS TO SEE-CANCEL A SHOW BECAUSE OF "POLITICAL REASONS"?
ELVIS...YOU ARE A HYPOCRITE...STAY AT HOME YOU LOSER...YOU ARE A DISGRACE TO ALL AND ISRAEL HAS GAINED BY NOT HAVING A TWIT LIKE YOU HERE
I am not going to even qualify with an answer-you are simply a bunch of loser groupies-get a life and go blow-and if I were you, I would worry about the way YOU look as an Israeli/Jew in the diaspora you hypocriteyaniv297 wrote:Elvis should have expected the outrage - every artist who comes here experience it. Before Leonard Cohen came here, there was an small demonstration against the show near the venue he played in Berlin. LC ignored it, played here, gave an amazing show and even quoted the bible (in hebrew!). Paul McCartney had threats on his life (!!!), but he still came, gave a non-political but really fun concert and talked a lot of hebrew. Costello should have ignored it just like everyone else did.MOJO wrote:It looks like everyone is turning this into a political issue. If I were in EC's shoes, I would have canceled, too, for the mere fact that, well, people simply get on my nerves. I'm not being insensitive to the people of Palestine, I'm just saying that all this build up and pressure to not perform in Israel would have gotten on my last nerve and I would have said, "You know what.. **CK it! I could use a few extra days of a vacation with my family." Whatever, I guess I can chalk up this post to PMS. Now I have a hankering for hummus... gotta go.
This desicion should be taken more seriously than "I want days off", as whether or not EC means it, it is widely interpreted as an anti-israeli statement.
Ignore him, I find it rather sad that an Israeli would actually join the message board for that. Go watch Kobi Perez instead. טוב לראות שאתה עוזר לדימוי הישראלי בחו"לmartybaram wrote:WHAT AN OUTRAGE!!! WHY WOULD A HASBEEN SINGER-WHO REALLY NOBODY WANTS TO SEE-CANCEL A SHOW BECAUSE OF "POLITICAL REASONS"?
ELVIS...YOU ARE A HYPOCRITE...STAY AT HOME YOU LOSER...YOU ARE A DISGRACE TO ALL AND ISRAEL HAS GAINED BY NOT HAVING A TWIT LIKE YOU HERE
[/quote]martybaram wrote:WHAT AN OUTRAGE!!! WHY WOULD A HASBEEN SINGER-WHO REALLY NOBODY WANTS TO SEE-CANCEL A SHOW BECAUSE OF "POLITICAL REASONS"?
ELVIS...YOU ARE A HYPOCRITE...STAY AT HOME YOU LOSER...YOU ARE A DISGRACE TO ALL AND ISRAEL HAS GAINED BY NOT HAVING A TWIT LIKE YOU HERE
the_platypus wrote:this Marty Baram character is hilarious
alexv wrote:What strikes me about all this is the language EC uses in his withdrawal post. He says:
"One lives in hope that music is more than mere noise, filling up idle time, whether intending to elate or lament."
Right off the bat, he's saying, look, music should be about more than just the melodies, the song structure etc, the merits of the musical performance that night. It should have resonance outside of the music itself.
He then summarizes the two positions in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, and makes a point of emphasizing their complexity and the ferocity of both sides.
So why is he withdrawing? Because...
"If these subjects are actually too grave and complex to be addressed in a concert, then it is also quite impossible to simply look the other way."
He has said that music, for him, should be about more than just music. By choosing to play in Israel, where the political is inescapable, and the political is all about these intractable Israeli/Palestinian issues where it is impossible for an outsider/musican to choose a side, the concert must, by definition, end up being all about the "music".
Elton or McCartney clearly don't have a problem with this. For them it's all about the music, divorced from the politics. For EC, that approach would, in ordinary circumstances, not be the preferred option in any case. But here, it would be catastrophic because it would be akin to playing the fiddle while Rome burns. For a performer like him, ignoring the non-musical side of things, in Israel of all places, would be criminal. He's not just some rock and roll guy who's all about the music. When he comes to your town to play he's not there just to sing in a vacumn. Where you live, how you live, what your culture is about matters, and connects to what he has to say musically. And a decision to play may be viewed, even if incorrectly, as a de facto statement about his views on the conflict. Rome is not in fact burning so why not play the fiddle?
And so:
"Sometimes a silence in music is better than adding to the static and so an end to it".
Based on these premises, and following this line of argument, I think he did the right thing. Now, if he got an invite to play in Cuba, say, I would expect him, using the same line of reasoning, to also decline to play. I suspect he would play, and if he does, I will argue that he's not being consistent, and his act would then be a political one. But let's wait on that one.
It's too late now for that, because whether he means it or not - his withdrawal is interpreted by many as an anti-Israeli, pro-Palestinian statement. Is that what he wanted? that anti-Israel organizations will thank him and make him their symbol? because that's what happening. So he did take a side - against Israel, or that's how most people take it. And I hope he realizes it and do something, or at least say something, about it.alexv wrote:Yaniv, EC is a political artist. He's no Elton John. Take it from a long-time fan/groupie.
On your second point. You miss my point: the reason I think EC is not performing is that he does not want to make a political point, for the reasons I summarized. Unlike Waters EC is not a "criticizer of Israel". That's the point. Any idiot can "call for peace". In a place like Israel, the issues are more complicated, and any "call for peace" should be followed up with: "agreed, have any ideas?" And that brings you straight into what EC wants to avoid. On your third point, he made a mistake.
Yeah, that's another point, you didn't see him cancel US shows because of Afghanistan, right?Emotional Toothpaste wrote:Oh, Elvis is quite political and has done a fair amout of Bush-bashing. But you never really saw him cancelling concerts in "red states".
So, yes it is a bit curious why he would agree to play in Israel and then all of a sudden, and presumably not because of any recent incident that any of us are aware of, decide to cancel. He must've had some doubts going in and then it gnawed on him. We can only guess. But it is his prerogative, and I have no problem with it, I don't live in Israel . . . thank God, Allah, Yahweh, and Muhammed!
You're way of the mark there,I'm afraid.yaniv297 wrote: OK, so first of all, I might be wrong on this but EC never struck me as a very political artist. With the exception of "Peace, Love and Understanding" - which is a cover anyway - I can't recall any politic songs of his...
I disagree. It was a thoughtful and heartfelt statement by someone who's clearly swung back and forth with this and I would guess still has nagging doubts about his ultimate decision. Elvis makes clear that he has no wish to promote or represent any call for an organised boycott. It's not a moral absolute - issues of "conscience" and "instinct" aren't always clear-cut - but, at end of day, you come face to face with the fact that you just don't play apartheid states, regardless of the disappointment felt by thousands of decent and understandably hacked off fans.yaniv297 wrote:alexv wrote: And third, if EC had any doubts about performing here, he shouldn't have agreed in the first place.
OH you are such a fool.freedom wrote:God Bless you Elvis! You have done a good thing by canceling your concerts in Israel. Just as it was the right thing to boycott South Africa so to is it right to boycott Israel. Israels policies and actions are far worse than those of South Africa under apartheid.
My grandparents were born under Ottoman occupation in Palestine, my father under British occupation, and I was born in Jerusalem under Jordanian rule. Shortly after my birth Israel occupied the remaining lands of Palestine and our family fled to the United States. Although all occupations were bad, Israel was the only one to ethnically cleanse Palestine to make it exclusively for Jews. Israel does not recognize our family's right to return solely because we are not Jewish. Under international law refugees are guaranteed the right of return. As a non Jew, Israel denies me my right to live in my house, in the city of my birth, where we trace our family for over 500 years. Still Israel is not satisfied with the lands it has already cleansed of non Jews and wants more. Exclusive Jewish only settlements are growing at unprecedented rates in the West Bank and East Jerusalem in defiance of the civilized world. All settlements are illegal under international law. Israel denies the most basic of human rights to millions of Palestinians and has literally created the worlds largest open air prisons in the world..namely Gaza and the West Bank. Its time to end Israels racist policies. Its time for Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions against the outlaw State of Israel.
I thank god for people like Elvis in the public eye who are courageous enough to take a stand.
...freedom wrote:God Bless you Elvis! You have done a good thing by canceling your concerts in Israel. Just as it was the right thing to boycott South Africa so to is it right to boycott Israel. Israels policies and actions are far worse than those of South Africa under apartheid.
[RANT]
I thank god for people like Elvis in the public eye who are courageous enough to take a stand.
Apparently Elvis wasn't clear enough. There are already several pro-Palestinian organizations thanking him for "boycotting" Israel, and pretty much everyone around here are convinced that he did this cause he hates Israel. So basically, whether EC like it or not, he is now an anti-Israel symbol, and you can be sure that his canceling will be used by many political organizations.Judge Holden wrote: Elvis makes clear that he has no wish to promote or represent any call for an organised boycott.
All I'm saying is, if he wanted to stay neutral he shouldn't have agreed to play here in the first place... because now he did take a stand, and that's against Israel, even thought he might not mean it.alexv wrote:ET, on your bush-bashing red state point: you are absolutely right that he played red states and bush-bashed. Why? Because as he says in his post, for him music is not just music, it involves other things, including politics. On American politics he clearly has a stated view: he's made up his mind that the bush side of things is wrong etc. He knows that in red states folks do not agree with him, but, since he thinks those people are plain wrong, he plays in their states and tells them, openly, that he's not on their side. Some boo, some whistle, some call out for Alison. No conflict there for EC.
We may not all want to live in Alabama but cultural and political conflicts there pale in comparison to the mess in Israel. As you can see from some of the impassioned posting from the Middle East guest posters, Israeli/Palestinian conflicts make our Red/Blue state disagreements appear banal by comparison.
As EC says in his post, the difference is that even though he may have a private view on the Israeli/palestinian issue, he is not comfortable, given the fact that he acknowledges that the issues are much more complicated and nuanced, coming out on one side. Not the case in the US issues.
He is fearful that the act of playing there, will allow folks on either side of the dispute to claim that his decision means that he's taken one side, the Israeli. So, in order for that not to happen he withdraws. Clearly he knew that the withdrawal would also have another consequence: the israelis would interpret it as meaning that he's on the palestinian side.
You can see, from our new posters and their shall we say impassioned posts, that this has in fact happened. So you could argue, as they argue, that this was his intent all along, to signal where he stands (with the bad guys) all the while acting under a mask of neutrality.
So, once he announced he was playing he was stuck: (1) if he plays, the Palestinians go nuts; (2) if he plays and everyone treats it as non-issue, as Yaniv says and as presumably has happened to other artists that played there with little fanfare, he's not staying true to his long-standing view on the role of the musician vis a vis his music (what I described in my prior post as not wanting to play the fiddle while Rome burns), and (3) if he withdraws, the Israelis go nuts. A no-win situation.
I would have counseled him to stay away in the first and not give reasons. That didn't happen, unfortunately. But look at it another way, our sleepy Forum has been enlivened by Middle Eastearn-style political discourse.