Curtisology

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Otis Westinghouse
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Post by Otis Westinghouse »

I had tears in my eyes for the final scene, and the final soaring camera shot with Atmosphere as soundtrack is probably the most emotioanlly involving cinematic moment I could imagine.

I took my son, the same sort of age I was when I fell in love with this band. We were both very impressed. He observed that Curtis seemd far more normal than expected, which was a relevant point. I've always thought of Curtis as other-worldly, yet he was much less so here. And yet you always hear how they were regular lads. I'm sure there was something darker and more sinister about the real man, but I still enjoyed this very believable and cinematically fabulous version.

It's a funny thing, here's this cult band who I've loved for 28 years and suddenly they're on film in the cinema with a five star review in the Guardian. It doesn't quite add up.

They're still my favourite band of all time by many miles and nothing could ever come close.
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Richard
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Post by Richard »

Great to read your personal response to the movie, Otis.

I totally concur with your closing line - "They're still my favourite band of all time by many miles and nothing could ever come close."
johnfoyle
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Post by johnfoyle »

It's good to hear Otis enjoyed this film so much. I stick by , however, my quibbles with it. All the great reviews , so far, seem influenced by the back story . They do not take into account the potential for a reaction from someone, like me to a certain extent, who , beyond enjoying the albums, knows little about the Curtis story. Some scenes are popping up in my memory , all the same. The farting in the dressing room one was hilarious, totally unexpected amongst all the dourness.
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Otis Westinghouse
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Post by Otis Westinghouse »

I didn't do badly there, posting that at 3.50 am after a heavy night out! (Shaking my 40something limbs to lots of good music at the local indie club, which tends to mean 8os and 90s indie, but sadly no JD.)

Very hard for me to respond to this film in any objective way, but non-JDfans like Jonathan Ross have been suitably impressed (he said he was never into them, but seeing the film he couldn't see why). There were two reviews cited in the godawful Daily Express, one of which dismissed it, the other was very impressed, and made a nice observation of the skill with which it combines what feels like insider documentary and kitchen sink drama and avoided all the rock biopic cliches. Well put point, I think it's this that gives the film its edge of quality and interest factor for any viewer, beyond the undeniable qualities of acting and cinematography. Maybe it was this avoidance of cliches that led to a deliberate playing down of the sense of mystique. My son said he thought Curtis would be weirder, and I'm sure he would have been in reality (her book certainly gives that sense).

Going back to your points, John, I can see what you're saying and I do think this is a flaw in the film. I think one recurrent theme comes through in the book that Corbijn didn't include (unless it's in the alleged hour+ that was cut - please, please, please let that be on the DVD!): an early infatuation of the 'don't want to stay alive when you're 25' theme. She may be stretching the point, but her view and that of other friends at the time was that it wasn't a great surprise that he killed himself given his teen attitude. I think a bit of that would have helped the narrative. He stood out as a teen, was very intense, had quite an aura, and was quite nasty to Deborah in a controlling way (which is touched on in a very light way in the film). He was good at his studies, but he and his chums did a lot of naughty chemical abuse (dry cleaning fluids, camping gaz, etc.). the one shown in the film led to a stomach pumping. The films could have made the point well that he had this somewhat desperate edge without much behind it, as many teens do, but then things turned genuinely awful in his life and almost ironically lend to him fulfilling his own juvenile prophecies. Yes, a bit of narrative improvement would have avoided these flaws.
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Mike Boom
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Post by Mike Boom »

Was just checking out the newly released collectors versions of the albums and man does the collectors edition of STILL sound fantastic - with lots of extra Live tracks too on each record, but the improvement in sound on STILL is just awesome.
echos myron like a siren
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Post by Richard »

Mike, Have you heard the remastered reiisues Unknown Pleasures and Closer? I would love to know if they were worth me reinvesting.

http://www.soundopinions.com/shownotes/ ... notes.html

Music Radio like it used to be. Here are two music writers talking intelligently (for the most part) about all kinds of music. The show is broadcast nationally on Public Radio and available in streaming and podcast online.

The latest show is from Friday November 02 and once you get through some amusing current stories the rest of the show is about the legacy and reputation of Joy Division.

They do refer to the 2nd wave Punk movement Oi! as Oui. So remember this is from the American perspective and things sometimes get twisted as they travel over the Atlantic.

There are some interesting comments if you can forgive the long bow they draw to compare Ian Curtis to Samuel Beckett.

It is great to just hear Joy Division talked about, an added bonus to have the band discussed with some degree of knowledge, insight and passion.

The streaming was not working at this link but you can hear it all via the podcast link.
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Otis Westinghouse
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Post by Otis Westinghouse »

Glad you're enjoying it, Mike.

Thanks for that, Richard. Will listen soon. There's been quite a bit of debate about the remastering on the generally excellent Joy Division Central forum I've been drooling over of late. People looking at sound wave charts, etc. Consensus is that there is some obvious improvement, and I alternated between Heart and Soul and remastered versions of some of the Still stuff and could hear some difference, but not enormous. Probably depends on whether you're using good gear, unlike me. I can't hear what they hear when they drool over the differences! At the same time, it was worth getting them for the bonus live CDs alone. Knowing the bootleg originals of all of them, I was able to compare and they're a great improvement. It is disappointing that the July 13 '79 (my 15th birthday!) Factory gig is used on the UP one when 10 of its tracks were already on H&S, and I do wish they'd used the March '79 Bowdon Vale gig they considered instead, but hey. The booklets vary. I found the Jon Wozencroft Still notes to be a disappointment, but they're still all worth checking out.

Bottom line: depends on how much a fan you have and how readily you'll part with your hard-earned! As a big fan, I would definitely advocate all.

One downer is that Twenty Four Hours wasn't on the last gig Still CD when first issued as it couldn't fit. They've done the same this time round. You'd have thought they might have omitted a different song this time, to give people who already had it on CD something different to get excited about, or better still tacked it onto the new live bonus CD. Silly. I'll have to check out the vinyl again to see how good a performance of that brilliant song it is.
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Otis Westinghouse
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Post by Otis Westinghouse »

Control was good, but cop a load of this. The live footage is going to be incredible. And the hypnosis tape! And yes, that's me in the commentary bit down below!

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/music/2007/ ... ntary.html
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Mike Boom
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Post by Mike Boom »

Looks awesome. I still havent seen Control - will have to try and find somewhere thats playing it!
echos myron like a siren
with endurance like the liberty bell
and he tells you of the dreamers
but he's cracked up like the road
and he'd like to lift us up, but we're a very heavy load
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Otis Westinghouse
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Post by Otis Westinghouse »

Did you see the Radiohead playing Ceremony link under Waht are you listening to? Brilliant!
There's more to life than books, you know, but not much more
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Mike Boom
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Post by Mike Boom »

Yeah, they do a great job on re creating the original soundwise. I see Thom Y is even using a Gibson SG. Though you obviously miss the original vocal. That bit in the original where Curtis sings "I'll break them down, no mercy shown" always sends a shiver down my spine.
echos myron like a siren
with endurance like the liberty bell
and he tells you of the dreamers
but he's cracked up like the road
and he'd like to lift us up, but we're a very heavy load
ice nine
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Post by ice nine »

Saw the movie this afternoon. I enjoyed it very much, but I can't see it winning any Oscars. It was a very good character study of Ian. I had not heard of Joy Division before coming onto the board. From the tracks I heard in the movie it seems that once you've heard one JD song you have heard them all. Sorry.

I couldn't help but think of the similarities of Ian to Jim Morrison. I am not a huge fan of The Doors either so I may not know what I'm talking about here. Are the similarities all in my mind or is there a case for comparison?
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Otis Westinghouse
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Post by Otis Westinghouse »

Curtis was very influenced by Morrison. His speaking voice is quite high, but I think some of the deep sonorous qualities he got in his singing voice owe a lot to Morrison, and the quasi-American stylings. And the teenage desire that never left him to die young (a theme in the book that the movie doesn't touch on) was based more on Morrison than anyone else.

Regarding your response to the music, you might say that of a lot of acts on hearing their music for the first time. If you listen to the recorded output, there's actually a pretty large range of styles and sounds there and it's hard to predict where they would have gone next. The producer Martin Hannett gave each of the two LPs a very distinctive quality, which increases the sense of a range.
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johnfoyle
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Re: Curtisology

Post by johnfoyle »

Yet another Joy Division film hits the cinemas.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1097239/

http://www.cerysmaticfactory.info/joy_d ... ntary.html

Joy Division - documentary

Stephen Morris's comment about his mixture of rage and grief at the news of Ian Curtis's death was the most telling moment of this excellent documentary. It echoes exactly my reaction at the suicide , in the past ten years, of two friends. In time it can become clear that both of them were unwell and it would have been difficult to stop them. However I still find myself wondering if I could have said/done something to change their mind. Stephen, perhaps , feels the same. It was a moment of humanity that was in keeping with the film's tone .

There are some hilarious moments. Behind a photo montage of John Peel we hear how he played one of their records at the wrong speed , fading it and grumbling about his own incompetence in his usual self deprecating way. Martin Hannet's truly mysterious way of production is gleefully related. Definitely worth seeing.
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Re: Curtisology

Post by Otis Westinghouse »

Not sure 'a second Joy Division film' merits 'yet another', though of course 24hourpartypeople contains a fair element of them. This is the first docu film, and good that it's getting a cinema release. Plan to see it this week. The idea of seeing their limited TV footage, especially the immortal Something Else stuff, on a giant screen is madly exciting, and it's good that Hannett, and also Peter Saville, get special attention as they contributed enormously to the entire aura of the group. Hannett was totally bonkers, and ruined by smack, but the combination of him and JD was a marriage made in the outer stratospheres.
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Re: Curtisology

Post by Otis Westinghouse »

Fantastic film. Interesting for casual fans/interested parties, totally gripping for hardcore ones like me. Very nicely made, paced, edited, constructed. Something Else on big screen was a goosebump moment as expected, but the bit that thrilled me probably more than anything was hearing the immortal 'Disorder' with the footage from the No City Fun Super 8 12 min film made in '79 which I've never seen.

I have pretty well all the concert footage shown on DVD, not hard with JD as so little exists, but seeing it on the big screen was brilliant. And very interesting to finally see Annik Honoré. Control was excellent, but this film brings you a lot closer to what they were really all about, and almost all the key players contribute in detail, though Debbie is only represented by written quotes. Morley makes some great points, lots and lots of the other three. It's a great film, and am already excited over what the DVD extras might be!

Radio 4's 'Great Lives' series this week featured poet Simon Armitage choosing Curtis. Excellent programme as Armitage is always insightful. Features Hooky too. Only up till tomorrow on Listen Again, but well worth hearing if you can. Downloadable via Bit Torrent here. One fascinating thing it contained was a Malcolm MacClaren remix of LWTUA with just the beautiful original vocal set to eerie piano. Full thing not released yet, but fingers crossed!
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Jack of All Parades
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Re: Curtisology

Post by Jack of All Parades »

Am sorely tempted to take this in tomorrow if I can get away from work early and take a train into Manhattan:

http://www.strandbooks.com/event/peter- ... rere-jones

Could be a fun evening at the Strand. They have made a concerted effort of late to book interesting programs like this one. Mr. Hook also had the end piece in this past Sunday's NY Times Magazine with a small excerpt from his new book:


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/27/magaz ... f=magazine

Maybe I can talk my daughter into going with me.
"....there's a merry song that starts in 'I' and ends in 'You', as many famous pop songs do....'
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Otis Westinghouse
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Re: Curtisology

Post by Otis Westinghouse »

Nice to see this thread revived. Good name!

You must go! Hooky is a legend. And a loveable old bear of a man too. Bloody shame about the whole acrimonious state of things with New Order. I loved seeing them with Hooky stand-in at Brixton last year and fully commend them for not letting the split stop them, what with Gillian back and all, but it would have been that much better to see the original four with Hooky's bass round his knees.

I was doing a spot of drumming with some guys last night, preparing for some performances of a musical at a local primary school. At the end of working through a bunch of songs they decided to finish by doing something we liked for fun. They put me on the spot and asked me what my favourite song was with a view to playing it. Somewhat bewildered, I thought 'will they know the chords and melodies of Atmosphere (or how about (I Don't Want To Go To) Chelsea?)'. I said they had to choose and so on we want to have a laugh playing 'Jump'! Not quite the same!

Finally, what I could really do with would be a proper Joy Div DVD release. Something cleaned up visually and sonically as far as poss containing the above-mentioned 'Here Are The Young Men' Manchester show, Bowdon Vale, Something Else, LWTUA video, etc. All the footage. I have it on poor quality bootlegs, still watchable, but surely someone can do the necessary and sell it?
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Re: Curtisology

Post by Jack of All Parades »

Unfortunately, neither my daughter or myself could get away from work in time enough to catch a train to the City and his affair at The Strand. Grand old NYC bookstore and a favorite haunt of mine since my undergraduate days in the early 70s. So I am unable to regale you with any new anecdotes. Sorry :(
"....there's a merry song that starts in 'I' and ends in 'You', as many famous pop songs do....'
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Otis Westinghouse
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Re: Curtisology

Post by Otis Westinghouse »

Aw, too bad. Next time...
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